But he goes on to tell an anecdote of a man basically on his deathbed due to a severe case of ulcerative colitis - an inflammatory and "incurable" bowel disease. Something was obviously quite off in his "chemistry," but it was something that Challen was able to guide the man to sorting out and fix in short order, like he so often does. I did not ask him specifically the details of the case, and what was causing the problem, but obviously following one of the simple rules of the RBTI in particular was enough to sort it out (as he hints at in the video).
challen hinted so subtly i have no idea what simple rule you are referring to.
ReplyDelete-Anonymous
I don't know. I didn't ask him.
ReplyDeleteDue to what he said about the internet...I think he was subtly hinting for people to go to www.heavenlywater.com and buy a ten dollar book or get your whiz played with and make a phone call.
ReplyDeleteEwww, that was not a picture I needed to see while eating breakfast.
ReplyDeleteI want to believe in RBTI. Help me with my unbelief.
@ Lorelei
ReplyDeleteHa ha! That's what happened to me too. A favourite part of my day is sitting down to lunch and reading this blog. But today, I scrolled up and got an eyeful of double colon action right when I was putting a big mouthful of refried beans in my mouth. So wrong!
Oh how I wish my nephew knew about
ReplyDeleteRBTI. He has had most of his colon removed. He was about 22 at
the time. He had been suffering since he was thirteen.
He was encouraged to change his diet. But, I don't think he really believed diet would help him.
Matt, thanks for answering my question on ureas. :)
I am wondering. Do you think persons with leaky gut could have high ureas from protiens that are not on the no no list? You know I have the Lupus dx too. I always say I have the dx. As, I am not convinced I have lupus.
Lorelei,
ReplyDeleteJust do it. The comment section around here has gotten very vitriolic lately and one thing I realized is it's just a lot of people acting self important. Anyone can sew doubt.
I don't really know how to make you believe since I don't know what your doubts are. I don't believe anything simply because I want to. You will have to work based on trust or find the information that is convincing to you.
I find the underlying principles (as they're understood by Matt, myself and many others that are trying it out seriously) to make a lot of sense. The RBTI promoted theories behind a lot of things need a lot of work.
The sort of mindset to take with this (as with anything) is not to accept or reject anything offhand. It is to understand there may be valuable information regardless of your own premonitions or other people's naysaying. You need to analyze what your doubts are and why you have them. Maybe they're legitimate.
I will relate my own experience, I'm not even on the full program yet. I've simply given up the main no foods, changed my eating patterns, and am drinking distilled (no lemon) to get my ureas down. I won't get more specific recommendations until I retest.
The first week or two was a rough adjustment, but I swear the program is already helping with body comp and the crud feeling I'm trying to overcome. I'm also getting high body temps more often and am regulating blood sugar very well the few times I've checked. So far it looks good but it's too early to give a real verdict.
If you have lots of questions, join the RBTI group on facebook. A lot more things are making sense since I've been posting there. For example, butter and coconut oil are not complete no foods: it depends on your ability to digest them. Hence the recommendation to restrict them.
Yes Challen recommends margarine and corn oil, but remember, he comes from a very different mindset than the rest of us. You don't have to go along with that recommendation. Perhaps we know things he doesn't. That's not the point. The point is he knows things we don't.
Yes, Lorelei, I agree if you want to learn and see it in action join the Facebook group.There is a lot of info and several people trying it out and reporting their daily experiences.
ReplyDeleteI will say that at one point in time this past summer I couldn't keep my blood sugar stable for more than 15 minutes and since RBTI I can go 6 hours with out eating and sleep through the night. That is only one of the many improvements. It's an odd time for me to try to report my success with it as I am only a month in and also in full swing healing crisis mode, "withdrawals" ala RBTI, and am not feeling well but my original symptoms that I am attempting to heal are much less severe than they have been for many months. The Facebook site is a constructive conversation forum to learn from those who are actually doing it these days.
IMHO cooked butter is hard to digest, not raw. So I cook with less, and add more before eating. I have no basis whatsover for this :)
ReplyDeleteSubscribing...
ReplyDeleteWas hoping somebody would pick up on the Biblical misquote. Trying to start a whole new religion war (NOT).
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, totally believe in the miraculous short term improvements with RBTI. Have seen plenty of testimonies on that end. It's the long term I'm wondering about. Almost any new diet can be miraculous at first, and then not so much. Every diet switch I've done has improved some aspect of my health, but only to a point. That's what I'm waiting for - the long term evidence. There have been only 4 or 5 people who've done this for more than a year - at least that we've heard from.
Hoping this upcoming ebook will include Matt's ideas on the long term usefulness of RBTI. If he's selling off all his books, I guess he's drunk the Koolaid, suffered an invasion of the body snatchers, and joined the club. Maybe I'm misinterpreting. Otherwise, getting rid of all those books seems precipitous to me. Matt?
Great Point AaronF.
ReplyDelete" Yes Challen recommends margarine and corn oil, but remember, he comes from a very different mindset than the rest of us. You don't have to go along with that recommendation. Perhaps we know things he doesn't. That's not the point. The point is he knows things we don't."
It's what I am coming to realize more and more, the longer I study this RBTI thing.
Lorelei-
Just wanted to let you know, that I have terrible adrenal and thyroid problems, as well. I have been doing RBTI for maybe 5 weeks and have lost 15lbs. But there has been a lot of nausea involved. I realized I was SO acid that I was not absorbing hardly any of the nutrition I was eating and so I could never heal and recover and so I felt like crap all of the time. Well, that is really starting to change.
I still eat small amounts of butter, coconut, potatoes, salt and lots of skimmed-ish raw milk. I use RO water most of the time with a little distilled thrown in.
It's really fantastic.
Hawaii Girl-
ReplyDeleteI understand your skepticism. Like I keep telling people, "if you are not skeptical about RBTI, you might be mildly retarded."
I think Aaron summed it up best. At the end of the day, this wiley Challen character knows some things that we don't. I believe that everyone in the health and nutrition field knows some things that I don't. That's why I've read 300 books!! (which I decided not to get rid of after I was able to miraculously squeeze all of them into my car - that was why I thought I HAD to do something else with them).
Of course, most of the authors of those 300 books don't have a very good understanding of the big picture, but it has been reading all of those books and digesting 25,000 comments working as checks and balances that have helped me put together more pieces, more coherently, with fewer blind spots than your typical health writer on an "eat this, don't eat that" crusade.
As far as long term benefits and consequences, it is unknowable. I assume that eating junk food and margarine and lots of corn oil and white sugar and corn syrup probably has a negative long-term effect. But those aren't mandatory requirements of this eating style. Since once again living and eating on my own my diet has been very nutritious, with tons of fresh foods, and virtually no modern, psuedo food at all (okay, I did just have a bowl of LIFE cereal).
But I don't think there are a lot of dangers otherwise. It is not carb, fat, protein, meat, or calorie restricted. It encourages great variety. If this way of eating has long-term consequenes, so do all ways of eating. And the problems with other ways of eating that give you good short-term results is that you end up being unbalanced after continued adherence. Here you are measuring and monitoring the balance of your own body chemistry and adjusting accordingly. I just don't see it having the pitfalls of other nutriligions.
Betty-
ReplyDeleteMaybe. But I've never seen anyone unable to bring them down. When I took my first test, my ureas were 20+, and I had eaten no animal products at all for the 7 days prior and very limited amounts for the 5 weeks before that.
Following the program correctly brought them down into the ideal range (12-20) within 3 days - just like it does for pretty much everybody as far as I know - without having to make some leaky gut assessment/diagnosis.
Thanks Matt.
ReplyDeleteEnjoyed reading your comment to Hawaii Girl too. :)
I spoke with Challen this morning specifically about the case of colitis he referenced in the video. Apparently the big thing for this guy was avoiding the "no" foods, especially pork. Even the very slightest exposure to pork was enough to cause flareups in his condition. Without any pork exposure, he was totally fine.
ReplyDeleteHe then went on to remind me that the lower the mineral supply, the more sensitive people become, and the more diligent they have to follow the program to get well.
ReplyDeleteI've been following this blog since November and experimenting with the advice. I was basically one of those WAPFers who went grain free and then crashed. I think my daily pot of coffee had something to do with it. Gave up caffeine and RRARFed for a while. Gained 10-15lbs and got kind of depressed about it but felt generally better. Some of the weight did go to my breasts - Thank God - I thought they were going to disappear.
ReplyDeleteI've been skeptical about the RBTI but needed to try something. I felt like all my issues were coming back (low sex drive, constipation, seasonal allergies, neck and shoulder pain, occasional insomnia, exhaustion) and I saw a picture of me in a bikini. I was all belly fat. Ugh.
So I have started slow just using general rules. No meat or sweets after 2pm and staying away from pork, chocolate, and nuts. I then started using regular salt instead of sea salt. That's pretty much it. I can report after a month, I am noticing a difference. Sleeping good. No real mood swings. Belly is looking a little better and so far boobs have stayed. Sex drive is coming back little by little. I am really starting to notice blood sugar and may get a refractometer. This morning I felt a allergy attack coming on. I started to reach for my neti pot but grabbed an apple and the attack just went away. I was amazed.
So I think there is something to this. Changing my eating habits has been big as I hate lunch. I'm not ready to go whole hog. Unless Matt wants to come up to Montana and test me, I won't be getting a kit yet. I may try the distilled water soon. The more changes I feel the more I want to go further into the program. We'll see. I have jumped on so many diet changes like everyone else here that applying any strict rules is not something I want to do. So I am going slow and not worrying about anything but meal times. I really like how I feel right now. I am trying to get my kids on board with the basic rules but trying not to stress about anything. If I just keep making big lunches and small dinners, I think they will make the changes too. I don't want to put any rules on them as I know how much that has messed me up. I started dieting with my parents around age 12. Besides my "rules" seem to change more quickly than the seasons.
If you're not really sick, I think people can try the basic rules and see big changes. It is pretty easy but I will admit the first week or so was rough. I do also take some minerals, feed them to my goats, whose milk we drink and am trying to get my veggie garden into gear with soil building and minerals etc. I think the goal of remineralization of RBTI has me interested and at least giving it go. The way I feel may keep me diving further.
Pork Is the New Satan
ReplyDeletePass it on.. WAP'ers will choke on their uncured pastured bacon at the news!
in other news, you can still not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
ReplyDeleteThanks Matt. I keep telling you that your way of putting things is why I'm such a fangirl (blush). I knew you weren't a podling after all.
ReplyDeleteSo... it has been one month now that I've: avoided the no foods pretty much (except sea salt, waiting for the shaker to run out), cut way back on butter and EVCO, and switched to the meal timing plan. I've also in the last week cut way back on nightly H2O and replaced with a bit of milk or ginger ale (organic, of course). Most of my water is filtered, but now and then I'll have a glass of distilled. I think I'm doing everything but the supplements and water/lemonade. The kit and the rest will have to wait till December.
Here's the thing. Everybody else reports feeling better doing just what I've done. I'm not. I've lost no weight, despite my calories, fat, and sugar going way down (I was eating a lot of chocolate at bedtime). I don't feel any more energetic (although I am nauseous a lot, that's new). Even the smoother heels only lasted a few days. I'm still incredibly hungry at night, and fairly thirsty.
I'm not nearly as ill or low-energy as many of the people who've reported results just switching meal times and avoiding no foods. So... why is it not doing anything for me?
One more question. I hate to be so cynical, but have we met any of these miracle cases Challen talks about? I know you met the woman with cancer that went away. But what about the others? I'm not saying Challen's lying... but some people seem to think they've accomplished a lot, and then when you look into it, you find out it's all in their mind. I've been disillusioned by too many big talkers to take anyone at their word any more.
ReplyDeleteLorelei,
ReplyDeleteIf you are only going to make a "pretty much" attempt at RBTI, it would be absurd to expect that you would get the same results as someone who is actually following the program. Sea salt is one of the main no-no foods. Honestly, I just don't get you.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou are right. Lorelei, you are criticizing RBTI in an attempt at getting someone to come forward and tell you what you are doing wrong. This can't be done through complaints on Matt's blog. You are not doing RBTI, so you shouldn't complain about not getting results from a program you are not even doing. "Pretty much" isn't good enough.
So funny watching Anonymous talking to itself. :)
ReplyDeleteReminds me of this cartoon - http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.html
It's not really hard to give yourself a handle.
Lorelei, The Facebook group has a member who has been doing RBTI for 4 years. She has had much continued success with it. And the Yahoo group is full of people who have been doing it for years as well.
ReplyDeleteMatt--I definitely agree that generally it sounds like a pretty balanced, unrestricted diet, and that with the chemical balancing and tweaking, it could have wonderful effects for people.
ReplyDeleteAt this point for myself, I'm thinking that I need to steer clear, unless I decide to go to Challen and do it 'the whole not-hog.' I'm saying this as a suggestion to anyone else with serious restrictive tendencies. My tendency is to take a bit of this and a bit of that with the recommendations that come up here, and because of my anorexic background/skewed brain, it always turns into restricting somehow. Plus, it always involves going against what my ND recommends in some way. For an example: after adding back starch and carbs and feeling so much better (yay!) at some time after 'Ray May' I quit my 5htp, judging that I was probably getting enough to make my own.
But if you spent most of a decade emaciated and amenorrheic, your body finds it harder to manufacture neurotransmitters and hormones--and needs cholesterol from fat to do so at all. And right around the same time I quit eating any fat.
At this point I'm in the almost incoherent (yes I can still type) 'crash' after being manic for a while, have had to increase my progesterone supp, and my ND suggested that some of the mental/emo stuff could have been exacerbated by going cold turkey off 5htp (which I need in high doses).
Trying the Challen mealplan, I was ending up starving myself, of course!
Sorry to be so long-winded: what I'm trying to say is that if you are a person who has a tendency to get 'hijacked' toward restricting or some other destructive behavior, it's probably smartest to do something like this under supervision or not at all. I love doing my own research about health-seeking, but don't seem to be good at putting into practice on myself. Recognizing this is part of taking responsibility for myself.
I hope it makes sense why I'm sharing this.
Ahhhh, I missed you, Erika.
ReplyDeleteGeez, girl, AaronF, Lisa, and Kelly Anne above described doing what I am with great success. The Evil Brock and many others have reported some success also, without going full RBTI. I guess they're idiots too. Even Matt and Challen have said that people can regain health by simply avoiding the no foods and drinking clean water. Morons. Only you know how to do it!
Yeah, I'm still using some sea salt. Not like before. I would think some changes, despite the sea salt, would have occurred. I'm not criticizing. I'm asking.
I don't get you either. You need to attack everybody. Why? I really want to know. WHY do you attack so many people? I understand you're sold on RBTI, but the way to convince others is to persuade, not insult. And by the way, I said above I'm convinced, so... not sure why you still get SO defensive about my comments?
I must be the only one that was cheering you on about getting rid of the load of books. They sound like a burden. I don't really like reading a book more than once though. Unless it's a true classic, or reference book. I'm a library girl. I doubt that all 300 of those books are ones you will really need again!
ReplyDeleteLorelei, you need to chill with the Erika comments.
ReplyDeleteWhen she chills out attacking me and everybody else, I'll chill out and stop pointing out that she's doing it. I'm sure the girl is lovely in person, but her on screen personality is huge turn off to RBTI.
ReplyDeleteI'm just saying, stop assuming all the annonymous posters are her. I really doubt it. There are lots of annonymous lurkers.
ReplyDeleteEla, thanks for sharing your story, which is quite removed from what I have experienced, honestly (i've always overeaten), but I can empathize.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't mind me asking, have you tried RRARRF? Or just eating anything you want? I am thinking that the most reasonable diet a person could practice would be balanced(fairly proportionate amounts of fat/protien/carbs), and included meat, liver, bone broths, bread and rice (any kind under the sun), salt, fruits and juices, saturated and monounsaturated fats, desserts, and dairy products (fermented if you're lactose intolerant, eg. sour cream). That's my opinion, at least. Sorry for the unsolicited advice.
I personally think intuitive eating, with balanced meals, mixed with little to no dietary restrictions, and an understanding of when to consume sugar, salt or water (eg. I've found that slamming oj or eating gummy worms before a long class makes the whole experience more tolerable, or eating starches and coconut oil before bed helps me sleep)are powerful tools; if the refractometer helps too then so be it!
Annette, LOL- yet again! Your comments always make me smile!
-Andrew
Andrew H--thanks for responding and for your questions/suggestions!
ReplyDeleteI enjoy your little intuitive findings also.
I haven't done RRARF per se, but the reason why I'm not still grossly underweight is because I did the Aajonus Vonderplanitz thing (having been vegan most of my life) for a short time when I lived in HI surrounded by people who worshiped him. I ate bigger quantities, including of animal products, than ever before or since and it triggered the worst relapse and an avalanche of other problems.
I went back to being vegan, but I had an egg the other day because I was so scared by my mental state and they had helped in the past. It made me sick, but I did work out pretty soon after eating (which is when I got sick), so probably need to leave more digestion time for heavy stuff like that.
I totally agree that if the refractometer helps to fine-tune things, it's a great idea. As it starts to get really cold up here in AK, and we fight the slugs and voles for the last of the garden, I'm definitely curious about improving the soil quality a la RBTI too.
thanks again!
Lorelei, following general RBTI principles did not work for me. In fact, it made me way worse so I stopped. My blood sugar was going crazy. I think some people need to test and get actual, personalized advice to benefit.
ReplyDeleteRight now, I'm trying to avoid no-no foods, only eat meat at lunch and have a smaller dinner, and work on stabilizing my blood sugar. But that's it. I'm taking my old supplements and trying to eat healthily and get sleep.
I would like to test at some point (when I can afford it) because I think I'm definitely de-mineralized, but I'm not getting anywhere following it on my own. Maybe it's the same for you.
and by "only eat meat at lunch" I mean don't eat meat at meals other than lunch (as opposed to eating an all-meat lunch, yuck!)
ReplyDeleteKitchen - the current Anon's style of writing matches Erika pretty closely. She's easy to recognize, much like OaaW. But you're right, it might not be her.
ReplyDeleteEla, I worry about you.
Amy, glad I'm not the only one who isn't experiencing noticeable improvements with just meal timing and no-no foods. I think my sugars are going crazy too, I've been nauseous for a few days and now I'm feeling a little shaky. That hasn't happened in forever.
Ela, thanks! I don't mean to pry, but do find it very interesting, and have a few more questions if you don't mind.
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of veganism do you practice, there are so many different types, the term is almost vague now days?-lol
How long have you lived in Alaska? I know that, even here in AZ, vitamin D is extremely important to supplement during the winter (and always, really)- I can't imagine how important it is during the AK winters! Do you supplement with D3?
You are probably right that exercise exacerbated the upset stomach/unrest. Although, it could be related to just not eating tons of protein on a regular basis. I was reading somewhere that eating protein stimulates the secretion of other digestive enzymes or hormones, like insulin etc. that help break down sugars and fats as well. Maybe try introducing protein and fat, maybe an egg fried in coconut oil, in small quantities, in addition to fruits, starches etc. And definitely take it real easy for a few hours after eating (and in general, as much as possible).
If you do take a D3 supp, maybe take it with a bit of liver (if you can handle it- also with a balanced meal), only a little bit will do you- its packed with vitamin A. Vitamin A and D work synergistically, and play major roles in hormone production specifically, among a ton of other things. They are also only found in animal products (or from direct exposure to UV radiation in the case of D).
I've heard that many largely vegetarian cultures ate shellfish on occasion (which is loaded with b12, and minerals, etc) maybe an oyster would take the edge off (of course if you aren't allergic or something).
sorry for the litany of questions/comments. Thanks again, and good luck!
-Andrew
Lorelei--thanks for your concern--please don't worry too much. I came back from the ND with some fairly serious chemistry-rebalancers today and am already feeling at least hopeful and hopefully less 'crazy!'
ReplyDeleteThanks, Andrew--I appreciate your interest and curiosity. It's fun to do 'case studies' with real people.
Glad that it's going well for you with this experiment too.
I actually take 10,000 ius of vitamin D per day! It's what I need to stay in range living here--half my genetics, the dominant half, is middle-eastern. Which could be part of why I love AZ! I'm going into my third winter here in AK, have spent four summers here. Have to take quite a few other supplements (not as many as I used to, though) but that's more to do with the anorexia history than living in AK.
I have some vegan friends who are _very_ black and white about veganism and up in arms at the idea that it's 'vague.'! But I fix meat and fish for my husband all the time, so I'm not a huge 'can't even look at it' type. Basically, I don't eat meat, fish or dairy (raw goat dairy seemed to be ok when I tried it but regular cow dairy makes me psychotic, amongst other problems) or eggs, but may be transitioning back to becoming an 'eggan' instead of vegan, as discussed.
You're probably right that working out soon after eating something unfamiliar is not a smart idea. My ND said definitely try an egg again and don't work out right after.
I've read that about shellfish and trad cultures too: lots of clams and mussels here and I've thought about it. Not very tempted but know it might be a good idea.
Ela, ooh yea, you have, not only the best clams and mussels, but fresh wild Alaskan salmon available! Any of that might be worth a try (at least for flavor's sake- if you like that kinda stuff at all)!
ReplyDeleteYou must have solid steel willpower to cook fish and meat for your husband and not partake- i could never!!!
10,000 ius of D3! that's great! I bet your getting retinol if your taking other supps too (but I would double check if I were you), so liver probably isn't essential, although it does pack a nice punch. Can you eat well aged, hard cheeses (which contain little to no lactose)? Hard cheese and fruit or juice is a great snack, if you don't have time to cook, I find.
That's funny about your friends viewing veganism as a black and white issue; it is anything but black and white in my experience (considering the huge range of factors that affect how environmentally sensitive/harmful to animals a given piece of food is).
Thanks again,
Sincerely,
-Andrew
Hey Andrew (and anyone else who's listening)--
ReplyDeleteSounds like you would enjoy AK.
No willpower about it: meat, fish, etc have no, zero, nada appeal for me, if anything somewhat the opposite. I also put on a dust mask and bake regular bread (I'm allergic to gluten). I like to cook what people enjoy--some would call me unprincipled but maybe there's a principle there too.
The two foods for which I have the hugest aversion, can't even put them near my face, are butter and cheese! Cheese and fruit is an age-old combination, so I understand that it could be good, and I understand that most people think butter makes everything better and cheese is wonderful, but I just can't stand either one!
Retinol I'm not sure about (I'm addicted to carrots, though, but I don't know if I eat enough carotene to make up for not directly consuming retinol)...
Thanks again!
@Lorelei
ReplyDelete"I want to believe in RBTI. Help me with my unbelief."
...one of the best comments I've ever read!! lol
*religion professor here...totally got your misquote
ReplyDeleteWell thank goodness somebody got it! I tried to be all clever. It's not often I bother. 'Tis one of my favorite lines in the NT.
ReplyDeleteLisa, are you still working with the Rubins? Boy, and we all thought Matt was off his rocker with Ray May!
Hey Sarah Cruse, much like Debbie, I really enjoy my own hubby! Thanks for offering me up though.
ReplyDeleteLoralei, I got it. :) Very clever.
ReplyDeleteI've just come back from attending a Tongan wedding - 3 whole roast pigs on the top table, raw fish in coconut milk, taro and kumara, taro leaves and corned beef steamed in coconut milk ... and so many desserts it was impossible to sample them all!
What, didn't they all vomit and die from eating those foods? I hope you ate lots!
ReplyDeleteGotta wonder why pork contamination from a pot will make somebody doing RBTI or with colitis so very ill, when others can eat pig every day and thrive. Do they really have that much more reserve energy?
Erika, if that wasn't you as anon before, I'm very sorry I jumped to the conclusion that it was you. I believe you mean well and want the best for all. I think you've done a wonderful thing by bringing this to Matt's attention, so he can share it with us.
ReplyDeleteWhomever you are pro-RBTI anons (and I'm going to lump you all together because you hide in anonymity) my point still stands - you've gotten very rude and defensive, and defending a position with rudeness rather than facts is cult-ish behavior. Doesn't look good on RBTI, and makes people who are honestly interested dismiss it as quackery. I hope that if you (multiple yous) plan on being a consultant, you learn some diplomacy.
My same point stands for the people who insult the other way. Sometimes (when I'm not busy with an actual life) I jump in and defend Erika or whomever when people are getting all ridiculous and into conspiracy theories. The vitriol on both sides is not useful. Doesn't prove anybody's point.
God in heaven, I'm starting to feel like OaaW. Whatevs.
I too wish the anons would stand behind their comments with a handle, if not a name. If you have something to say, stand up for it! Or at least let us distinguish y'all. It's not like we can track you down with a handle.
Just because it's been on my mind for days... no sweets or protein after two means...
ReplyDeleteSPIT not SWALLOW.
(How about that one for a handle?)
Lorelei - SPIT not SWALLOW.
ReplyDeleteThat's really funny. I do wish the Anonomi would differentiate themselves as asked but perhaps they're just fragments of a whole. :)
Yes, I ate lots - even now (after nearly 6 hours), too full for anything else till breakfast.
I rarely eat pork anyway, along with many of the no foods. So decided to give this pork thing a trial when I picked up some good, cheap ham.
ReplyDeleteI had been testing ph for a few days, so got a rough estimate to my average. Eat all the pork in one sitting. Urine ph dropped dramatically (about 1 whole number) from what I was seeing.
This drop was not obviously noticed in my mood for better or worse.
But the numbers showed something.
As rediculous as RBTI can appear, the fundamentals of it are very solid.
Then when you can see it in the numbers everything starts making sense.
Like Matt says, the general backbone of the rbti is nothing wild. Water, lemon, food, test, supplement to the numbers, remineralize.
It certainly can not be any more dangerous than say cutting out all carbs without rhyme or reason and with no measurable reference than some arbitary self reasoning to how you feel.
I guess my main reserve with rbti is, Is it certain this perfect health formula is right? Would the healthiest person alive test perfect according to Reams?
Argh, Lee, I was in bed, and your comment made me think too much.
ReplyDeleteThis whole house of cards is built on the tenet that the equation for perfect health, which came from God knows where (literally), really is the equation for perfect health.
Then I had a mental conversation that went like this:
Padawan: Master, how is that we know pork is bad for you?
Master: Because, my young padawan, we see that it moves your numbers away from the perfect health equation.
Padawan: And how do we know that those numbers represent perfect health?
Master: Because when you eat pork, which reduces your health, we see it reflected in the numbers. When you do not eat pork, your health remains perfect, and this is also reflected in the numbers. These numbers are obviously the perfect health equation, since this is where you are at when you do not eat pork.
Padawan: But how do we know that eating pork is bad for you?
Master: Because you will see it in your numbers, which no longer reflect perfect health.
Padawan: I don't understand. Why do those numbers indicate perfect health?
Master: It is simple. When you eat pork, which is bad for you, your numbers change. If they change, it means that pork is bad for you and you are no longer in perfect health.
Padawan: (spontaneously catches fire from constantly running in a giant circle).
Master: You see, my young padawan, you have consumed pork, which gave you far too much energy for your body to handle, and you have now exploded. I shall use this as a teaching moment in my classes.
***
Obviously it's way past my bedtime and I'm either getting incredibly goofy or insightful. You pick.
"This whole house of cards is built on the tenet that the equation for perfect health, which came from God knows where (literally), really is the equation for perfect health."
ReplyDeleteYep- that's my main question, along with whether the interventions actually move the numbers toward the ideal equation. Challen says in one of those videos that as the numbers start getting closer, you start to feel a lot better. And Matt and RBTIers maintain that the best way to know this stuff is to try it and experience it yourself. So I suppose the way we know it's a perfect health equation isn't so circular, but is grounded in you as the client actually feeling better and experiencing a benefit.
Yes, I am still working with Josh Rubin! Unfortunately I had a set back this summer by having total knee replacement. I took a break from keeping my food log and trying to eat (painkillers make me want to puke). I'll be starting up with him again on Sept 28.
ReplyDeletethis time around I'm including blood glucose levels in my data reports to him. We'll see if we can reverse my type 2 diabetes.
Will blog about it when I have something to say :-)
Ha! You're Welcome, Lorelei. All in good fun:)
ReplyDeleteI am feeling amazing and here is what I am doing and weightloss is amazing also.Clothes are hanging off me in that good way.Also'last week I went off and after a few days I tanked and felt so bad that at one point I felt like I would collapse when standing online paying for groceries.Two days and back to normal.....no testing though since I ran out of supplies.My urine went super foamy and just now back to just a trace......
ReplyDeleteI take an ionic trace mineral supplement that is basically sea salt with sodium removed(72 trace mins).Only calcium supplement I take is coral calcium and the remainder of my calcium is from a heavy intake of cheese(I explain below).
There is something to Challen's meal plan and also his water intake thing.I went optimal complete meals when I crashed a week ago.Two days in and I lost the raving feelings I was posting about on here in past.No running to work etc.Now I eat carb galore for meal one and a meat and bag of frozen asian veggies meal two.Meal one today as example was Mcdonalds pancakes and the new oatmeal thing and then a small popcorn at movies.Usually I eat a bran muffin and another pastry like a pecan roll.....and a large coffee light and SWEET w/real sugar.Meal two is usually 2tbsps butter with half pound of meat and good amount of cheese
And Challen water thingy....I have noticed that I can lay down and feel so tired and comfortable and then get up drink water and 20minutes later my blood sugar drops and I can't sleep.So my cure is cheese.....it seems to stabbilize my sugar so well that anytime I go hypo I take a slice and before bed I take a slice....plus its loaded with the ever important calcium.My mouth PH stabilized at 65 where its been ever since so I stopped taking the lemon juice though I still mainly drink distilled.
One final thing is I take my thyroid meds first thing upon awakening and with no food.I read that thyroid meds aren't absorbed well and people take them alone before bed with best results.Also I believe that the hour later heavy carb meal then allows body to beter utilize the now circulating in blood meds
Ok. I'm not fully caught up on the comments here but I want to address one thing to Lorelei. Ditch the sea salt. I've only had one test so far and it ended up being not that worthwhile since the sea salt was shutting down my system and made it impossible to see much else in my chemistry. Pippa knew I'd been eating sea salt right away. My instructions were to start with a water flush, which means drinking lots of distilled and not even starting with the lemonade. Now that I'm done with that, I can retest again and get more specific recommendations. It may be well that you need a water flush as well, but I am not one to diagnose.
ReplyDeleteOne other thing I'd like to say is that it sounds like you're coming from deeper health problems than someone like myself. Remember that with RBTI the degree of strictness with which you need to follow it depends on where your body is at. I hope that helps make you a little less disillusioned. I feel like RBTI is worth an honest shot.
I have a sea salt issue: when I don't use sea salt in my tea the edema on my legs goes away almost completely. However, my eyelids immediately show signs of dehydration. What can I do to counteract this? Whenever I take the sea salt the eyelids go back to normal again. Anyone have a clue how to solve this?
ReplyDeleteThanks Aaron. The shaker should run out of sea salt this week, so that's when I'll make the switch. Since I'm not actually testing yet, I'm too frugal to toss it. Plus, I've been eating sea salt for over 10 years, and my health has been improving bit by bit and diet by diet for the last 4, so I'm not too worried about dropping dead from it!
ReplyDeleteIf you mean disillusioned because it hasn't seemed to do anything yet, I'm not really, I'm just feeling left out! Everybody else (cept Amy) is claiming results from doing as little as I am. Although I've been getting more nauseous and shaky every day. Today I was barely functional, which hasn't happened since I tried to make RRARF low fat over a year ago. Hmmm.
If you mean disillusioned with whether or not it works, I may come across as uber skeptical, but I really do believe it works for many. Why, though, is another story... cations and anions, pfft. Anyhow, I'm enjoying tracking all the guinea pigs before I jump in all the way. True, you're probably healthier than me, but I'm not as bad off as many who have jumped right in. I'm ok to wait and only try the very most basic things, which Challen has said is a good start for most.
Rob A - I agree, the proof is in the pudding. But it makes you wonder, is another set of numbers even better? Or could a different equation be optimal for different sexes/ages/races/individuals?
ReplyDeleteBTW, LOVING the Vitaclay. Has made everything perfect so far. Except tapioca. I don't think that's something you can make without constant stirring, unfortunately. Boy, was that hard to clean... I just wish it were bigger. With 3 big kids, it's barely enough for one meal! I could never use it as a crock pot, we'd all starve.
I've been doing the Challen thing officially for 3 weeks now and am feeling slightly skeptical about the whole thing - ready to give up every day but still at it! The pluses - the carb breakfasts are making a huge difference at eradicating my low blood sugar in the mornings. Makes sense since those glycogen reserves need to be restored - Ray Peat (I'm still a fan) says some people need a lot more sugars than others to restore their glycogen and I must be one of those - for years I followed a lower carb (30g) high protein breakfast (having read the book Matt reviewed a while ago regarding the circadian rhythm suiting protein in the morning and carbs at night) - what a mistake! I am still adding about 15g protein to my breakfast (milk/cottage cheese/egg) but my carbs are now about 60/90 and calories obviously more. I also find I like eating 3 meals a day rather than snacking - I can get more done and my energy lasts longer although I'm not happy about the small dinner (see below). However the lemonade/water thing makes me feel like a freak - really does any want to go around with a timer in the morning - it might be fine if you are sitting at a desk but if you are out and about, as I am, its so hard to remember and packing lemonade and water - horrible! I'm not sure if that is something you are meant to do forever ... what a thought! I'm also concerned by the comments on distilled water on this blog. Challen knows a lot but does he know about the effect of BPAs on health and whether or not they are in distilled water. Matt, perhaps you would like to comment on this as distilled water seems quite a controversial subject in the natural health field. Plus I have heartburn in the evenings which I have never had before which seems to be related to the distilled water as one day I substituted filtered water and had no problem. I would say this is the biggest concern about the whole thing for me at the moment. Also, the thirst thing - waking up in the middle of the night with a mouth so dry I could barely swallow seemed, well, unhealthy! So now I am drinking a cup of g. milk with each meal and it is fine. Also the small meals at night are really not working for me - I have really physically and emotionally demanding evenings (any mother of young children knows what I mean!) and I was feeling ill with exhaustion by the end of the evening after eating a small meal at dinner so I have increased it somewhat and am just avoiding meat. Plus I have discovered with the refractometer that I sleep much better if my sugars are highish in the morning (4 v. 3 with a small meal - you wouldn't think it would make much difference but it seems to) which demands a decent sized meal in the evening (for me anyway). Plus it is socially isolating to put it mildly and yes, that does matter to me. I haven't actually noticed any improvements in my list of symptoms apart from the morning blood crashes and am having strange cramp like twinges in my feet and hands (lack of magnesium?) and a horrible sore throat from the lemon juice (aloe gel recommended but I can't find one without carrageenen which is the only thing I know I am allergic to), frequent stomach aches/gas from the vegetables/salads (Ray Peat's advice on vegetables - stay away definitely suited me better) and heartburn.
ReplyDeleteI thought I would post here rather than on facebook as I like the skepticism - keep it going Lorelei!- as I am totally turned off by the tone of the facebook fans - just reminds me of every other diet fad out there with obsessive believers. I wish Dorie (was that her name?) would come back and give us some more info on her lack of progress on RBTI.
Anyway, like I said I'm still at it but not sure about going forward. Buying a distiller - which I can't afford - might make me more comfortable with it - but obsessively sipping every morning for the rest of my days is a sad prospect.
On another note - anyone have any suggestions for/experiences of getting rid of throat clearing. The Challen plan isn't helping.
ReplyDeleteHow do we know the numbers represent perfect health? We don't really, and as I said before, this is one of the most important criticisms against RBTI. It may be that Reams, from his previous work, had some sense about what they should be for humans. It may also be that they were tweaked over time and did not come from one set of divine inspiration.
ReplyDeleteTwo things here: One is that if we believe Matt, RBTI has helped reverse serious conditions for a lot of people, so there's that evidence to go on. The other is that a body shutting down tends towards perfect numbers. So if you're eating too much of a no food, or if you have a really advanced disease, many of your numbers may be perfect, but one or two will be way off.
I find this interesting and I haven't fully thought through it yet, but it seems to say these are the numbers when not much is happening. So if you are maintaining a perfect environment for your body, it doesn't have to do much, and the numbers tend towards those values. On the other hand, if your heath is way out of whack, but your numbers are near those values, then your body is not doing what it should.
I think the numbers may be secondary indicators. Like maybe blood pH and blood glucose are tightly regulated, but urine and saliva not so tightly. That is to say the latter move so that the former can maintain a tight range. These are just my pet theories. I'm still in the process of playing around and experimenting with RBTI and seeing what I think.
Sorry about not being logged in for my last post. I am on my tablet and it's more difficult to correct that problem than on a laptop if you realize it after you've already typed your comment.
ReplyDeleteDino - totally agree with you about several of your complaints. I had dinner with my parents a few days ago and just ordered salad. I had to request them to hold the chicken and egg and pepperocini. That was their version of a greek salad, which is what I was craving at that time anyway. Seemed kind of weird eating that for dinner at an Americana resteraurant.
I'm taking it easy on phsyical activity as well for now since it makes it so much more difficult to gauge everything. With your level of physical and emotional demands in the evening, you may well need to eat more.
As for the program interfering with everyday life, I've realized that pretty much any healing system or protocol is going to involve some measure of social awkwardness. So far as I can tell, RBTI is not that restrictive and relatively cheap.
I don't plan on following all the rules forever. I think it's largely a healing protocol. But if you have good health, or have maintained it for a while, then maybe incorporating many of the habits of RBTI without being neurotic about it, and going with the flow in social situations is the most blanaced approach.
One more thought. I see aspects of other systems in RBTI. Master cleanse. Intermittent fasting. And many of the guidelines from books like "French Women Don't Get Fat". The more I think about it, the more RBTI feels like it has all of these things tweaked to a higher degree than any of these systems alone.
ReplyDeleteAaronF-
ReplyDeleteFantastic comments. You made better sense out of everything than I have been able to. And I've been thinking about it a lot!
You don't want to have the "perfect equation" as your numbers either. That would mean your body is not healing. When your body is healing the urea numbers should be much higher - like 7/7 (not 3/3), and the albumin should be much higher 4M or 4M+, not .04M. And your pH and sugar levels should be dynamic.
If you total the urea numbers together the "healing range" is 12-20.
In fact, if your ureas are 3/3 on the first test, you are unlikely to be able to recover from your condition, have a severe potassium deficiency, and perhaps a brain tumor.
But spend enough time with enough sets of numbers and you don't really have to question the validity of the equation much anymore. It all just starts to become so damn obvious. Undeniable in fact. Because it's so simple.
Dino-
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to eat that light in the evening. I watched Challen eat an entire pizza for dinner one night! Just make it vegetarian and dessert-free. That's all. If you are someone that has repeated sugar crashes during the day, you can have quite a bit of starch in the evening as well. Doesn't have to be just milk and steamed vegetables or something like that.
There's no doubt that being tethered to a bottle of lemonade is the most tedious part of the program. But the drinking schedule does put the "sugar" number in the perfect zone and can keep it there if you follow the rules of the sugar.
You can also have whatever drinks you want to have with meals as long as you don't have fruit juice or something like that at night time. I have milk, bottles fruit juices, fresh juices like carrot and green juice (recently), smoothies - all kinds of stuff. Plus soups in the evening several times per week.
I don't get thirsty or ever have a dry mouth. My urine is light colored after 16.5 hours of drinking nothing but a few ounces of milk with my evening meal. That's because my sugars stay stable during the night. When sugars crash you get a dry mouth and urinate. That's where dehydration sets in, and where people keep drinking and drinking and washing their sugars out.
I really understand this well after working as a Wilderness Ranger for so many years. I would never be thirsty until I drank water. Then I would be thirsty and urinating the rest of the day - and feel more dizzy and lethargic than I did to start the day before I drank any water.
Keep trying to find that aloe vera gel.
Pain in the extremeties, and weird things going on in the hands, feet, scalp, bones, etc. is very common. That, and insomnia, are considered to be two of the most consistent symptoms of gaining energy. I have had some of the same things happening. It comes and goes.
The throat clearing problem is probably from being overly anionic I'm guessing? Be careful with eating things like cheese or eating too much dairy in general. You might want to drink juices with your meals instead of that milk - only having some milk in the evening.
Wolfy-
Cheese is one of the best foods for an overly acidic person. It is one of the worst foods for an overly alkaline person. Remember that body chemistry is dynamic and what works great today may be sheer poison tomorrow. That's why being able to track your chemistry and adjust accordingly is such an asset.
And finally, sweet Hawaii Girl-
ReplyDeleteYou've made a lot of progress, and rebuilt a lot of your strength. There's no doubt about it. But I know that you have had many signs of having a very low mineral supply. Being allergic to water for years and having extremely adverse reaction to even the slightest amount of refined food in your diet is a case in point.
And when you are in a weakened and highly sensitive state like that, even being slightly off with the program is enough to keep it from working. I gave a girl the wrong recipe size for her lemonade the other day and it pretty much ruined her. It had the opposite effect of what it's supposed to do, just because she was drinking 32 ounces per day instead of 21. I didn't realize she only weighed 105 pounds. She was up 4 times per night urinating, and was dizzy, lightheaded, and emotionally erratic. That's how precise this stuff can be, and how precise it needs to be, for some individuals.
Tonga-
Oh yes, we should eat like Tongans. They are so fantastically healthy that 17% of 41 year-old females have diabetes. Obesity is off the charts. Diabetes doubled in a 25 year period following 1973 when it was first surveyed, meaning that their diet must be really working well for them. Tongan feast anyone?
Matt, are you planning to drink the lemon water all your life?
ReplyDeleteThat is one of the hardest parts for me, too. I am showing a lot of improvement and plan to keep it up as I heal for sure, how ever long that takes. but I feel imprisoned by the idea of having to live that way for eva!
I'm just wondering about peoples different takes on that.
Plus, I heard that Reams eventually developed an allergy to it. That doesn't seem healthy. It feels to me, intuitively, that eventually doing it just a few times a week or something should be sufficient...What do you think?
Ever checked the biological laws of Dr Ryke Hamer related to the bowels?
ReplyDeleteQuite interesting stuff....
Ron
leefbewust.com
Thanks for your comments Matt. Very helpful - and encouraging. I'll keep at it for the time being. You didn't address my concerns with the distilled water controversy - perhaps you could do a post on this ....?
ReplyDeleteSarah, I was reading through a bunch of old posts on the regular RBTI Yahoo group yesterday and ran across some very interesting ones. Reams himself didn't drink the lemon water, at least as time went on - he had become allergic to it or something. His granddaughter, Katherine swore up and down that he didn't drink the lemon water and remembers him telling clients he didn't drink it. She also asked her mother about it, who was also sure that he didn't drink the lemon water.
ReplyDeleteAnd it looks like Reams didn't have people do the lemon water for life. This is a very confusing quote by Reams from the ARM RBTI book, "How long to stay on the lemon and water? Subract your age from 100 and that's about it. About 7 to 9 months for an adult person, on the hour. 3 or 4 months for a child. I've been on it for 50 years or more."
Apparently, what he's been on for 50+ years is distilled water. And how one gets 7 to 9 months by subtracting your age from zero, I have no idea! Quotes like this are the reason this whole RBTI thing is so confusing. LOL.
(The Yahoo posts were from June, 2006. I didn't mark down which # the posts were.)
Sarah, why do you feel imprisoned by the idea of drinking lemon water? I use to drink (unsweetened) lemon water all the time back in my eat whatever I feel like, no body fat, no health problem days. I don't see any problem carrying this forward once I've achieved my goals. Although I'll go back to R.O. rater than distilled and not kind of have any rigorous schedule about it.
ReplyDeleteMany aspects of this program, in addition to incorporating pieces of other programs, also feel intuitive. I remember way back trying to do the 8 8oz glasses of water a day. It felt like too much and I never made it. Now I know for me at the time, it was too much. I also remember coming to the conclusion it wasn't good to drink water in the evening. RBTI is right on track with all of this.
Stephanie C and Aaron F, Thanks for that info!
ReplyDeleteThat is what I am trying to get to the bottom of, whether it is really best to do so and why. Also it looks like what you are reporting is that you read that Reams didn't drink the lemon water BECAUSE he became allergic? That is what I thought...Anyway, I have been really ill and RBTI is helping me clear stuff up that nothing else could.
I have been told by a few individuals that it is recommended to continue with the lemon water all your life, once you start if you want to stay healthy. I may have misinterpreted something. That is what I am trying to understand.
I just don't want to carry around the idea with me that I better drink the lemonade everyday or I'll regress back to my illness. I find on the days that I feel well as I recover it seems like not that big a deal. On the days that I am struggling and feeling the really healing process it's seems like the end of the world. lol. So I suppose it is partially psychological.
Bottom line: I really really want to be healthy again but am so depressed by the idea that I may need any sort of crutch to keep me that way. I miss my carefree life before illness.
I'll be doing some international traveling next spring and while I don't think I'd be strong enough to do so at this rate if I had not stumbled upon RBTI, the idea of having to navigate the everyday lemon water thing and pork contamination thing in various foreign countries for 2 weeks is wigging me out.
I need to believe that I'll be resilient enough to not NEED those things to feel well at that point. SO I am searching for evidence that a person can live without the rules now and again.
I just need to stop worrying about it for now and talk to Challen about how to manage it once it's closer.
Dear Matt - no need to be sarcastic. I certainly wasn't advocating that anyone copies a modern NZ Polynesian diet - but, as you know, the causes of their obesity and ill-health go way beyond mere diet.
ReplyDeleteThe traditional Polynesian diet (even the one in cold NZ) produced strong, tall, healthy, muscular, handsome people. It had to, or they would never have colonised the Pacific Islands as they did in pre-European times.
No Tongan celebration is complete without roast pigs and of course, a wedding is a time for celebration and feasting.
Now back to hum-drum weekday fare. Unless there are leftovers. :)
@ Ron,
ReplyDeleteI just ordered the book you mentioned
Seems interesting.
I took a look at your site. Are you thinking of writing an article of RBTI or do you have another interest in it?
Hey Dino - if you're really overly anionic, can you please put a video on youtube?
ReplyDeleteOn the plus side, you should repel lightning and be able to stick your finger in a socket with impunity.
On the down side, you might be emitting giant sparks. Or be overly attracted to metal objects, I'm not sure which.
Either which way, I gotta see it.
Sorry Matt, couldn't resist. Did you make a Reamsian slip and mean alkaline? Or are you just trying to rile me up and reduce my sweetness quotient? (Head explodes).
Can't we all just smoke a bong and chillax? I need more 70's movies please.
ReplyDeleteI've been Brocked!
ReplyDeleteI have seen the question raised before and I am not sure if it has been answered even though I read most of the comment sections thuroughly.
ReplyDeleteHow would someone who has sports events or trains in the evenings adapt to the RBTI eating and drinking regimen?
Personally I have no problem with a lighter supper because intense activity does not leave me starved if i have eaten well earlier, but if hungry, is increasing the proportion of a salad/soup fine?
Also, I cannot imagine lasting without having multiple drinks during intense activity. Just drink lemon water? I would be fine with that. Just drink skim milk? I could handle that too.
Aaron,
ReplyDeleteMatt already said it but it's worth repeating. Again, excellent comments!! Thanks for helping to keep this in perspective. Always look forward to what you have to say when I see the comment is yours... as with some other commenters here : )
--
Matt wrote:
"Pain in the extremeties, and weird things going on in the hands, feet, scalp, bones, etc. is very common. That, and insomnia, are considered to be two of the most consistent symptoms of gaining energy. I have had some of the same things happening. It comes and goes."
Hmm, interesting. Same here. Just following the general guidelines, I've been noticing a dull ache that comes and goes in my feet - which I've never had before. Good to know this is common and a sign of gaining energy.
Thank you Matt, Dino, and Aaron for the dinner/supper comments. This has been one of my biggest struggles. I don't like seeing my girls watch me eat virtually nothing for dinner. I don't want their heads to get messed up. On the other hand, I have been reading John Douillard's 3 Season Diet today and it has also been encouraging. He is an Aryvedic practictioner who has a similar suggestions. He suggests eating as a family on the weekends at lunch time and then twice during the week- with the supper being light. That means 51% of the time, one would eat a light supper. He has been able to have this large meal lunch for over 15 years- with 6 children.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think that you are alright, Hawaiigirl. Keep on plugging.
Also, I haven't needed pain meds for a couple of weeks now after taking a dose every 12 hours for over two years.
Deedle
Ela, your aversion to dairy/meats is interesting; have you always felt this way? Carotene is good, but I've read that most people have a hard time converting it to retinol- If you think you could try a little liver, it might work well, considering your high D3 intake. Good luck; give us updates, if you're at all inclined!
ReplyDeleteMatt, those Tongan statistics you cited imply that shellfish and pork cannot be related to their rising diabetes rate (as pork and shellfish have been consumed there for thousands of years prior to the epidemic). Those numbers were taken completely out of context (if you were trying to finger pork, shellfish or coconut products as the culprits, that is). I'm a little shocked, frankly... way to conflate correlation with causation.
One aspect of Tongan life that is interesting food for thought is that during westernization, the old cultural traditions of eating a light dinner and huge lunch with a siesta were swapped out for the standard sized, 3 meals/day with big dinners. Refined sugar and flour consumption increased dramatically as well (probably pusfas too). Thanks for posting that info, though; it helps support my hypothesis that pork and shellfish are perfectly safe for humans to consume.
sorry for nitpicking, here...
Lorelei, LMFAO, about the anionic man (and the meat or sweet joke)! You are a witty one.. and, what's that about getting Brocked? Who would Brock you?! Oh yea, that was a good Bible joke too!
Grass Fed Momma, I second that motion!!! :)
thanks,
-Andrew
AndrewH--thanks again for your interest!
ReplyDeleteYes--I've always _loathed_ cheese, milk, butter--I was more friendly toward yogurt and ice cream as a kid, though. I never really ate meat as a kid, didn't like it when I did (except my grandmother's chicken rarely). When I tried it as an adult, I couldn't stick with it.
That was all pretty public-spirited nitpicking and it's what it's all about really, isn't it!
Ela, it's fascinating how diverse people's instinctual cravings can be! There are so many factors that could probably affect them.. i'll be thinking alot about this..
ReplyDeleteand I totally agree, thanks again!
-Andrew
Lorelei,
ReplyDeleteYou have given me an idea for a new Mega Man villain: Anionic-Man! (Cheesy yet awesome Nintendo music begins playing inside my head).
Annette,
I am interested in your comments about the Polynesian diet. One of the things I have wondered about the RBTI no foods is if there is any strong contrary evidence. I had thought the Okinawans consumed a fair amount of pork or pork product, but when I tried to corroborate this using Dan Buettner's Blue Zones info, I found out that traditional Okinawan culture used pork only infrequently and as part of celebration. Of course, a healthy person eating pork only infrequently is not at all out of line with being able to maintain good health according to RBTI so I can't consider this contrary evidence.
Do you know if traditional Polynesian culture consumed pork on a regular basis and not just at ceremonial events?
To everyone,
I am interested in any traditional (pre-modern) culture that was able to maintain excellent health and longevity with pork as a regular part of the diet. Please post any evidence. With RBTI corroborating Chief's (and a couple other commenters') comments on pork, I am considering restricting it (or at least being more careful about it) in my diet long term.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteCan you give some pointers on body-temp? I'm having several mornings where the highest reading I get on the thermometer is 97.3 or 97.4. Not quite sure what I'm doing wrong. Am I following my appetite too low? Should I eat a bunch of starch?
Also, I've had the desire for candy lately. I picked up yogurt pretzels, licorice bridge mix, and those candy mint things that look like Hershey's Kisses. I'm not even that hungry but for some reason right now I want these junky foods. Could I be missing something in the diet or is this a natural thing. Except for the recommended desserts, I've been eating fairly clean and enjoying it the past couple weeks.
So I got my (hydroponics) conductivity and pH meters and was very excited to play around with my pee and spit some more.
ReplyDeleteMy numbers came out as follows (all tested at around 2pm):
Urine Brix 6.6
Urine pH 6.6
Saliva pH 7.1
Urine Conductivity 17.4
So that would come out in the equation as...
6.6 6.6/7.1 17.4C ?M ?/?
Got caught up in all the excitement and forgot to measure my Cell Debris. Plus I won't be able to measure my Ureas any time soon since the chemicals aren't readily available here in the UK.
If anyone could tell me what RBTI says about me and my numbers then I would be very grateful.
I never thought playing with urine could be so fun.
Realised I forgot to convert the Urine Conductivity to the C unit so 17.4 would come out at about 25-26 I think?
ReplyDeleteSo..
6.6 6.6/7.1 25C ?M ?/?
Simon-
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the pee party dude!
Not sure what the conductivity reading really is. On the meter I use you have to convert from Ms to C (by multiplying the reading by 1.45).
I'm guessing you need to do the same, unless of course you have some severe coordination issues (as that salt to brix ratio would suggest).
Other than that your sugar just looks high, but it also depends on the time of day. I would drink that water on the half hour during the first half of the day until it comes down.
Andrew-
ReplyDeleteI think the RBTI explanation would almost be identical to the Kilmer McCully homocysteine explanation...
Refined carbs make pork and shellfish problematic.
In the homocysteine theory it's because B vitamins are stripped from refined carbs. In RBTI it's because the minerals are stripped from the refined carbs and the mineral supply gets too low. Reams believed that even pork and stuff could probably be ingested if you spent a significant amount of time with perfect numbers first, thus becoming fully remineralized and maintaining it for a while.
The lower the mineral supply, the more problematic these things become. Similar to how marathon running probably becomes increasingly harmful the lower your nutritional reserves become.
Hawaii Girl-
ReplyDeleteExcuse my Reams-induced vernacular. Anionic is thrown around loosely to mean overly alkaline and cationic is thrown around to mean overly acidic.
But I like Aaron's idea of Anionic Man. This superhero should be very athletic, have a big nose and big lips and tiny calf muscles, very tall, lots of nasal congestion, and have to clear his throat a lot. Favorite food is cheese. Favorite drink is milk.
AaronF-
I think the sudden adjustment to light eating at night probably causes a short-term drop in body temperature. I don't think this is permanent, or something that can't be fixed with a little more syrup on your waffles or ice cream at lunch. A little more starch in the evening is probably fine too. Dinner doesn't have to be just a few stalks of asparagus and a dollop of cottage cheese. I would think this would be even more true for someone on the leaner side, but who knows.
Dylan-
You are fine to eat more starch and overall food in the evening if you are training hard. Just focus on the provision to eat no meat or sweets.
As for sweating hard, remember that your body uses sugars up, and secretes out salt and water during exercise. To then try to replace that by drinking just plain water is a mistake. I would concoct some kind of homemade Gatorade with maybe 1/3 grape juice, 2/3 water with added salt and at least some sweetener - maybe a 1/2t of blackstrap per liter.
Okay, maybe that sounds kinda gross, but see if you can make something you like. Or drink coconut water or something.
And drink small amounts at regular intervals instead of large amounts an hour apart. That's really the whole point of the drinking regimen - to maintain perfect fluid balance. Too much at one time just washes you out.
If I could do my Ranger job all over again, I'd do it with a Camelbak and stuff to add to the water I was drinking (and I freaking hate straws).
A direct reply from Matt Stone! This is probably the happiest day of my life! *Hi-fives you with a urine-coated hand*
ReplyDeleteMy meter measures in mS/cm so I guess I would have to multiply by 1.45 which gives me a salt of 25?
Don't have any coordination issues that I can think of.
My sugar is usually lower than that, between 5 and 6.
When is the best time to test?
Would the water have to be distilled? Stuff is expensive over here.
Annette-
ReplyDeleteDon't take offense by my sarcasm. Sarcasm is pretty much my middle name. You should try to throw sarcasm back at me and get me all riled up. That's when the real fun begins.
Debbie-
Smoking bongs is like, so bad for the numbers. Geez.
Distilled is nice. Mostly because the pH tends to run lower. Try to at least find some water with a pH close to 6.4 if you are going to do some systematic drinking.
ReplyDeleteIdeal time to test is supposedly 11am.
Just tested and the pH of my tap water is exactly 6.4.
ReplyDeleteTap water run through a BRITA filter is 5.3! Good for growing cannabis, apparently.
@AaronF,
ReplyDeleteNot sure if this helps, but I too have wondered about the pork issue. In my research I came across someones blog where he spent time with the Vanuatu people and found that they ate the typical pacific island diet of mostly starchy tubers,fruit and coconut milk. It was pretty low in fat(which mostly came from the saturated fat in the coconut milk) and protein and very high in carbs. Their main source of meat came from chicken,beef and fish. Pork was consumed only during celebrations(feasts). Here is the link if you want to check it out.
http://thatpaleoguy.blogspot.com/2011/06/diet-and-lifestyle-of-people-of-vanuatu.html
Also, when I was studying up on the Okinawan diet I came across a few youtube videos where a reporter visited the island and showed what they ate each day. From what they showed they ate a lot of sweet potato, white rice, veggies and very small amounts of fermented tofu. They also start the day off with their daily dose of a special citrus fruit that looks like a lime. Not to say they don't eat pork, but it was never mentioned in any of the meals they showed so I can't really say for sure how much they really do eat of it.
Also, I have had huge debates with my doctor because she believes in the whole low carb high fat diet. She basically thinks that any carbs are what cause the diseases of civilization. I would ask her "than why are the Kitavans, Vanuatu people and the Okinawans so healthy?" She would tell me the first two she never heard of(how convenient!) and that all the Okinawans that would come into her practice(She practiced in Hawaii for over ten years)consumed fish such as sardines and that it is not true that they consume lots of sweet potato and starches. Her reasoning is that sweet potato is indigenous to South America. While it is true that sweet potato originates from South America, as we all know many foods that are indigenous from a particularly country have been brought over by boat to other countries where it is then cultivated. There is no way she can convince me that the Okinawans don't eat that very special purple hued sweet potato they are famous for. Anyways, she never mentioned them eating lots of pork. I do have many Chinese friends and they would joke saying that if they didn't eat pork growing up they would have starved. So who really knows what to believe!
Take care!
Jennifer
Pee party is hopping here!
ReplyDeleteI think I'll continue on- a bit much going on right now and implementing is tough. Haven't really given it the fair shot it deserves. But I like hearing people's feedback.
Meanwhile, I'm gonna keep looking into that high brix gardening stuff...
Jennifer,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info. This strengthens the position that pork was used only occasionally for ceremonies. It's starting to sound like the high (unrefined) starch, high vegetable, moderate fruit, low protein diet is very common and is being backed up more and more by what's going on on 180.
I'm not sure I find your Chinese friends' testimonies convincing. I'm interested in pre-Westernized cultures that maintained both good health and longevity eating pork on a regular basis. The information you provide on the Okinawans backs up the Blue Zones data. The Vanatu data looks interesting so I'll have to look into that, but it's not contrary evidence. I'm mainly interested in finding contrary evidence and sorry to say, the testimony of friends does not meet the standard of proof.
Random observation on the lemonade:
ReplyDeleteBack in my intuitive eating whatever I want days, I used to often add lemon to my water at work. Lemonade at fast food places was always way too sweet and water with lemon always had no lemon flavor at all. I would squeeze lots of lemon into my water. I've been noticing the "lemonade" on RBTI is very lemony, similar to the way I used to make it, and not very sweet at all. I looked up the amount of sugar in RBTI lemonade vs Hi-C pink lemonade and it contains only 10 to 20% the sweetness.
Again, I have to say RBTI often feels like its going lock-step with intuition. Since I don't have a second test or any real recommendations yet, we'll see how much that stays true the more I get on the program. I'm interested to see.
@Matt - no offence taken, and I think I personally do irony better than sarcasm. :)
ReplyDelete@Aaron - I left a longish note on your own blog rather than gum up the works here.
One other comment - in traditional societies (including Polynesia, Melanesia and China), of course edible items that were expensive and time-consuming to raise weren't eaten as a staple. (And seafood and kumara are still NZ Maori staples. Seafood was cheap and abundant in the old days - when I was young!).
The same applies to all of us if you think about it. Who eats fois gras and pheasant every day? But that doesn't mean to say they can never be eaten, which is what RBTI says about pork.
Enough from me for now - I'm rambling!
Matt,
ReplyDeleteThis is totally interesting, and if I lived closer I'd certainly call ya up to check my pee. However, one thing I've noticed about RBTI is that when someone who has a rather acute problem, such as the colitis or the man who had heart problems, they get better and stay better ONLY if they eat the diet. Do they have to always stay on the eating plan, or do they actually get healed enough to eat outside of that someday?
Just wondering...and also, is what he says about children staying away from meat really legit? I have NEVER heard that one, coming from the Weston A. Price camp here, and would really like to know more about that. THANKS!
Jessica
AaronF,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on the friends testimony not being proof that pork is healthy for us. The only reason I mentioned it is because they are first generation Chinese Americans so they grew up on their parents, grandparents and great grandparents traditional Asian diet. Just thought I would give another perspective for you. My biggest issue with the pork "being bad for us" reasoning is the fact that the reason given as to why we should avoid it is because it digest to quickly(3hours as appose to 18hours for other meats) and then I think to myself how fruit digest the fastest of any food and yet it is safe for us to eat. Maybe I have the scientific reasoning wrong and am completely missing something. I haven't had pork in forever, but I do have a friend who has had severe Ulcerative Colitis since he was a teenager and he lives for bacon. Has it almost everyday! If pork is harmful for us, I too would really like to know to be able to help him, based on some kind of scientific/biological proof to back up the claims. He definitely wouldn't just give up bacon because my numbers are off with my urine! :-)
Jennifer
Matt, thanks for the response! That is an interesting theory, I'll have to check it out in more detail, when I get a chance!
ReplyDeletetwilight2281, where did you hear that 18 and 3 hour digestion time tidbit? I was under the impression that pork takes the longest to digest (up to 6 or 7 hrs) when compared to other protein sources (depending on the preparation method, of course).
Here is some info on pork consumption nationally, compiled in 1997 by the USDA. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_por_con_per_cap-food-pork-consumption-per-capita
Here's a list presenting 2005 obesity statistics according to the OECD. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity
Here's their '04 cancer mortality statistics. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-death-from-cancer
Here's the WHO's '95 to '98 statistics on heart disease mortality rates among nations. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hea_dis_dea-health-heart-disease-deaths
Does anyone see any, even spurious, correlation between these problems and pork consumption? I sure don't! There is no evidence (that I have seen) to support the claim that pork is harmful- the burden of proof rests on those who make this claim.
Your right, pork was highly prized in Tonga; it was saved for special occasions and religious ceremonies(it was valued in many cultures, actually; I remember my friend from Mexico telling me that pork is the "food of kings"). Shellfish was consumed regularly by the Tongans I believe.
thanks,
-Andrew
I feel like I could handle that drink reco. seeing as i have consumed some disgusting sports supplements in my life.
ReplyDeleteWhen you refer anionic man looking a certian way is this because overly alkalinic people take on a certian look according to challen or whomever?
***part of my last comment should have been directed at AaronF.
ReplyDeleteAaron, what about Denmark in 1997 (granted, it's a modern culture which doesn't fit your specifications exactly)? Do the Dutch just have alot of intrinsic "reserve energy"?
-Andrew
"But I like Aaron's idea of Anionic Man. This superhero should be very athletic, have a big nose and big lips and tiny calf muscles, very tall, lots of nasal congestion, and have to clear his throat a lot. Favorite food is cheese. Favorite drink is milk."
ReplyDeleteOh my gawd, Anionic Man is my husband!
I had a pee party too.
ReplyDelete5 5.5/6.5 31C 4M 10/9
the nitrates are tricky- wondering if it's gonna mess me up if I give Challen the wrong numbers----Yikes!
the test is exact- but I could see where self-interpretation could mess someone up. Human error should be a consideration if not getting the results with RBTI-
Deedle
I just thought I'd re-post a fb comment here.- hope that's ok! :).. its a bit long-winded.
ReplyDeleteI decided to go straight to the original, mac-momma of Seventh Day Adventist prophesy based dieting- Mrs. Ellen G. White! OMG am I glad I did, is it ever fascinating- I need to study the history of dieting!
Her recommendations would make any modern diet guru blush, way back in 1905! She promoted the idea of using diet to achieve salvation, self deprivation, No meats or sweets for dinner (only starches), hardcore veganism (with a capital "H" [humans were vegan until "after the flood", apparently]), caloric restriction, food combining, pro kosher (if meat was to be consumed at all), teetotaling (in favor of outright prohibition, actually), low salt, light dinners, bland food, and a moral high ground stretching far into the Heavens!!! She also wrote that heavy laborers need not worry about diet as much as light workers, and that eating the same thing every day is dangerous! Her work has many similarities to Reams' (including that she was considered a prophet, by some).
http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mh/mh23.html
I believe her work influenced Reams heavily (she was a major prophet in his faith, after all). Remember, according to some Seventh Day Adventists, a significant number of people must be converted or instilled with a "Christian character" in order for the Second Coming to occur. I suspect that hastening the Second Coming is what RBTI is all about. http://www.lastgenerationtheology.org/lgt/ori/ori-lgt14.php/
My skepticism of Reams is growing by leaps and bounds! If RBTI is about proselytizing and religious conversion, isn't it completely deceitful (and extremely anti-Christian) to imply otherwise?! I would like any information on the religious aspects of RBTI. Adventists who believe in "Last Generation Theology" believe that perfection can be achieved by humans before The Second Coming of Christ- this absolves the idea of "perfect" numbers from being a blasphemous concept.
I am interested, again, in why this seems to be working for people. The more I ruminate on Reams, the more this old saying comes to mind: "Even a blind pig finds a truffle, occasionally"!
Thanks,
-Andrew
I don't think I can recommend just doing RBTI casually anymore. Like I wrote a few days ago I felt good and the basic rules are easy.
ReplyDeleteWell, I can't tell for sure because I don't have any testing equipment but I can feel my sugars all over the place. I am having several sugar crashes a day ( maybe they are sugar highs - I don't know) I get these intense allergy attacks, feel weak and have to pee. If I catch it early enough a bit of fruit will make it go away. Otherwise a spoonful of sugar works. I also am not sleeping well at night at least not for the past 4 nights. Getting up to pee urgently and restless. Before that my sleep was awesome so I don't know what is happening. Am I "healing"? Am I eating too much sugar?" Am I breaking a Challen rule that I don't know about because I am just doing this casually. I did recently quit eating white potatoes - maybe I'm detoxing. But I also feel it could be a million other things. Too much water, not enough, my pans, my olive oil, maybe there was sea salt in those chips.
I thought I had cured my hypoglycemia years ago by changing my diet. I feel like it is back with a vengeance. However I also am becoming aware that maybe I didn't cure it. One of my complaints is always being cold - especially feet. I was hoping RRARFing would help but it didn't do much for that condition. I am still cold and I could did get my body temp up.
So, now what? Do I run like hell to Challen? or to a bacon stand? Can I just wait and see what will happen on my current path? Will the insomnia and sugar crashing eventually go away. Am I more of a severe case than I thought? do I really want to commit to RBTI? Do you have to eat and drink that way forever? Is it really in my body's long term interest to eat that much sugar? My kids will probably do it too if I go for it. Could it be damaging? Like Lorelei, I want to some long term evidence.
Thanks
Thanks, Andrew for the insight. With no disrespect to anyone who is Seventh Day Adventist (I admire them greatly), but I'm not really interested in getting to heaven with my diet. I just want it to be effective. I don't want to put any unnecessary restrictions based on piety- I just want to feel better. My husband is not happy with me not eating at dinnertime (I guess vegetables don't count). I have to ask myself is this worth disrupting the family flow? This is why I want to know the basis for no sweets or meats after 2pm. Actually, I can accept the sweets part---it's the meat part I can't get away from. I don't want the reason to be because it will make me a better Christian (which I am trying to be already). This is not a good enough answer for me. I am sacrificing too much for vague answers. That being said, I am testing today at 11 and plan on consulting with Challen.
ReplyDeleteI don't mean to stir the pot- just wondering if anyone has better insight.
Thanks,
Deedle
For Deedle, What you put in your mouth and at what time is your own business. If you are supporting your family's meal routine at supper time....eating what you choose; that should be part of a healthy relationship. None of this feeling of having to defend your decisons. HP
ReplyDelete@AndrewH,
ReplyDeleteHere's a link about Seventh Day Adventists being one of the longest living groups (Blue Zone group): http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/13/earlyshow/saturday/main5636245.shtml
They are the longest-living group in America (the ones specifically in Loma Linda).
I remember reading that National Geographic article years ago. I'm not sure if they lean more towards veganism or are more vegetarian. I have aunts and uncles in Florida who are 7th D. Adventists and they eat tons of soy products and mock meats. Not sure about the folks in Loma Linda though.
That article says their diet is inspired by Genesis, Chapter 1, vs 26.
Thanks for reposting from FB. Some of us aren't on there, and I, for one, appreciate the extra info/updates from everyone on FB.
@AndrewH,
ReplyDeleteActually, if you scroll down to the bottom of that article, you can click on a link that will bring you an excerpt from The Blue Zone, which talks about the diet of the folks at Loma Linda (soy products, lots of nuts, lots of water) and a bit about the history of Ellen White and Kellogg (I'm assuming of Kellogg's cereal fame...I just skimmed the article quickly).
Pretty interesting for sure :)
Thank you, Anon. My mother just told me the same thing about 30 minutes ago. Food can have a lot of issues surrounding it. Perhaps I will go buy some candles and set the table nice to see if it alleviates the tension.
ReplyDeleteI just tested my numbers again and called Challen - it was busy- sigh.....
Also, I had read about the Seventh Day Adventists through the Blue Zones studies and have always admired them for their healthy, happy lifestyle.
Deedle
Fear and stress will move your numbers in the wrong direction. Sometime the less said the better...do it for yourself if no one else cares. Our bodies are amazing and will respond to healthy choices not only with physical food but emotional "food" as well. I've been doing RBTI for about 6 weeks now without the kit for testing and have seen amazing improvements. Don't let anyone "hog tie" you and you get where you need to go. Getting to sleep was a slight problem for a few weeks but now I sleep right thru the night from 10p-7am. Take it from an out of control food addict....this works. Also, stop playing number games with the scales. Healthy weight will happen as you heal. HP
ReplyDeleteKelly Anne, the same thing happened to me so I just stopped. I felt like it was doing more harm than good. The only thing I do now is avoid meat and desserts after 2pm. That's it. Well, I'm avoiding the no-no foods, too. I am drinking water normally because I feel better when I do. I'm taking regular supplements that I've been taking (multi, maca, vit. d). I feel much better again now. Until I can actually test, I'm not messing around with the other stuff. I don't think it was detox, I think it was messed up blood sugar.
ReplyDeleteAmy, Are you going to test? I haven't been doing much more than avoiding meats and sweets after 2pm. What were you doing that you stopped doing to feel better? Not really sure how to get my sugars back to a more stable level now except go back to a low or no sugar diet. Don't even know if that will work.
ReplyDelete@Deedle,
ReplyDeleteIt was explained to me at one point that eating meats and sweets late at night required too much digestive work during the night, when keeping a meal light allows the body to use more of it's energy for healing and rejuvenating while we sleep. I was waking up very nauseous every night at about 3 as my health declined before the program and it hardly ever happens now so that makes sense for me.
@Kelly Ann
I have been doing the full program with Challen for about a month and my sugar levels are all over the place with all kinds of symptoms that go along with that. But I couldn't go for more than an hour without eating when I started and now I can wait 4-6 hours between meals like a normal person. I think the change in the habits and the change in chemistry that comes with that and the healing are all very stressful on our bodies but all for good in the end. the sugar imbalance should come more and more into balance as you heal. I have had some very good stable days now and again and I hope that there will just be more and more of those as I continue. I think the initial upheaval is par for the course.
Kelly Anne, I will test once I can afford it, but that isn't going to be for a few months at best. I was eating a really small dinner and carby breakfast with sweetener, and not drinking as much water. I was drinking juice with meals or skim milk. I was also taking min-col Now I'm basically just following a normal diet with the no-meat-or-sweet-after-2 thing and avoiding no-no foods. I might take min-col again, but I'm not now.
ReplyDeleteI think I had more sugar coming in than my body was used to. My sugar levels were decently stable before that, so I think it was worse and not part of the healing process. I don't really want to mess around until I can test, though.
@ Matt & workout guy,
ReplyDeleteJust thought I’d mention: On the fb group I read that you shouldn’t use blackstrap as a sweetener for the lemonade because it was “too strong.” I guess that means don’t use it in the sports drink either.
Thanks A lot ,,,
ReplyDeleteenzymes du foie
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