Thursday, September 8, 2011

RBTI and Junk Food


Before getting started, I must publicly declare a winner for the two combined road trips. Winner of what? Awesomeness of course. While one guy opened the door adorned in a faded Ghostbusters t-shirt – and believe me, I was impressed and thought this was unlikely to be topped – and another fed me cheesecake, housed me and Pip for an evening, and let me have a couple games of ping pong, there is no question whatsoever that the Croatian giant that I met in Chicago won handily over all the others if awesomeness is the object of the game.

I walked in the door and he had an 80’s movie cued up on the television. Before saying anything he pushed PLAY. It was an obscure 80’s film that I didn’t recognize right away. But lo and behold I had not only seen the film, but actually saw it at the movie theater as a kid. K9. While many might prefer Turner and Hooch in the crime-fighting dog category, K9 has subtle undertones of Belushi that is more appropriate to a refined 80’s palette. And it was poetic as we said goodbye and the credits were rolling. Coincidence? I think not.



On to our primary matter of business – the RBTI junk food scare…

It seems a lot of people get freaked out about some of the questionable foods being consumed as part of RBTI; version Waychoff. I get freaked out too. Margarine, soy bacon (Stripples!), and corn oil for example aren’t exactly old-world foods that human beings evolved with. We have survived quite a while as a species without them. Nor is the very clear research on such foods particularly comforting. Then again, none of those foods are mandatory requirements, so there’s no point in having such foods stand in the way of your openness to the basic guidelines of RBTI.

I joked while in Wheeling that I cleared up my margarine and HFCS deficiencies while I was up there. One day we ate sandwiches where the bread was slathered in margarine and toasted and then filled with mayo-laden salmon salad – served with canned soup containing HFCS (remineralized with blackstrap molasses of course!). Pretty funny. But at the end of the day, who the f#%$ am I to bash such foods when people are seemingly overcoming death sentences eating them? Sometimes even the great Matt Stone has to eat a slice of humble pie – and two slices if it is Marie ‘Challen’dar’s Coconut Cream pie.

But if I had to say anything definitive about refined, processed, packaged foods and the RBTI (which I don’t) – it would go a little something like this…

Refined, processed, packaged foods are much easier to digest and metabolize. Take for example the diet of a gorilla, which is based upon eating a lot of “browse” – leafy vegetation. It is estimated that the gorilla only gets 50% of the calories in browse, while the rest is wasted. Processed gorilla biscuits are very concentrated, far more palatable, and far more digestible. A gorilla will choose this every time over its natural diet (and get fat because of it) – just like a human will typically develop a distaste for simple, unseasoned, fibrous raw foods when something like a Happy Meal – practically pre-digested for maximal softness, tenderness, absorption, and digestibility (which our senses recognize as superior), is eaten on a regular basis.

With refined foods, there is a tendency to eat more, digest more, and absorb more. That may not be true for everyone, but generally this is true. And I’ve understood this all along, having first told an extremely underweight and undernourished guy to run, not walk to the nearest 7 Eleven and have doughnuts and Gatorade. Doughnuts and Gatorade are much more healing to a starving person than sauerkraut and grass fed raw meat (which was the basis of this 120-pound guy’s diet). If I was visiting a village of starving people in Africa I wouldn’t show up with chicken breasts and Brussels Sprouts, but kegs of Coca Cola and mountains of French fries and pastries.

And guess what? There are a lot of people out there – I have seen many for myself now in the 10,000 miles I have driven since May 31st of this year, who are underweight, gaunt, feeble, overexercised, and hypometabolic with radical fluctuations in sugar levels. And these are often people who are the most afraid of eating junk food – as they often got to this state by eating a puritanical diet of 100% unprocessed, unrefined foods. They heal the fastest eating food that is maximally palatable and maximally absorbable. Marie Challendar has the creation of that kind of food down to a science. For a starved person, it could very well be that the most nourishing farm on earth is Pepperidge Farm.

For everybody else? Well, I suspect the same rules apply. A lifetime of eating a lot of junk food yields a junk body. It’s not like Challen’s pets have escaped the wrath of commercial dog food because he feeds them lots of mineral-rich bones. Sure, he fixed some major health problem in his dog in the short-term, but long-term he still became lethargic, swollen in the abdomen but with skinny weak legs, food-obsessed with no ability to self-regulate his weight, and not much better off than a typical indoor pooch.

There is no mandatory requirement to eat packaged and processed food if you are someone who is overweight, pre-diabetic, etc. In fact, I would recommend you avoid that stuff almost completely – especially if you start this RBTI thing and find your waist travelling in the wrong direction. People with a tendency towards having a high refractometer reading, according to the RBTI (and I’ve heard this straight from Challen’s mouth) should be eating mostly whole foods, and shouldn’t be eating any dessert at lunch time either – but just a single piece of fruit at breakfast and no other sweets during the day other than the trace amount of sweetener in the lemonade.

And no, having perfect “numbers” is unlikely to make excesses of margarine, corn oil, and other vegetable oils found in processed foods miraculously stimulating to the metabolism. They are not.

With an acute disease, these are trifling matters. No one needs to make a big deal out of eating such foods if you are going to die of cancer in a few months if you don’t reverse your body chemistry. You can do so with corn oil, so why make a big deal over telling someone it’s not optimal? The program should be as easy as it can be while still getting the intended results. There’s no reason to fuss about it in a situation like that.

As it pertains to a lifelong pursuit of health through a quality diet, for the purpose of health maintenance – well, you figure it out for yourself. Avoiding processed food doesn’t mean that you are “not doing RBTI.”

I think the biggest mistake people are making is looking at it like an all or nothing kind of thing. It’s as if there are two extremes squaring off against one another at the moment – the people who think that whole foods are problematic and inappropriate, and those that think processed foods are problematic and inappropriate. In reality, everyone should probably eat a little bit of everything. The underweight low sugar health fanatics should have more processed foods and desserts, but still plenty of nutritious whole foods like steamed vegetables, meats, dairy products, and fruit… While those who have strong digestion and tend towards having a high sugar problem that are overly stimulated by calorie-dense junk food need to eat far less processed food and desserts and a lot more nutritious, non-pornographic, homemade fare.

Fair enough?

Having said all that – I’m getting leaner and leaner eating all this junk food and driving around in a car haha! I would have lost more I suspect if I had been eating a strict whole foods, homecooked diet and not going bonkers with dessert every day, but who knows? This health/diet/nutrition game is full of surprises. It’s best to keep an open mind. Like the WHIZard says:

“Minds are like parachutes – they only work when they are open.”



138 comments:

  1. It makes sense intuitively, but instead of all of the crap that kills you if you eat it every day, people could just process good food. Apple sauce, mashed potatoes with butter, beef jerky, etc. That's what I would probably go for.

    ReplyDelete
  2. @Matt, very interesting post that clarify a lot of things. I would however comment on your gorilla statement
    Written as it is it looks like Gorillas or humans tend to eat these foods because there are more nutritious. PALATABLE is the right world: let's keep in mind what you have stated in other posts - that if humans or animals are attracted to this food it's not because it contains more nutrients, but because a bunch of chemical aromas and flavour enhancers have them hooked and overwrite the natural brain signals, creating an addictive behaviour. Nothing to do with density of nutrients therefore.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I think without the testing this is sort of akin to driving a three wheeled car, not very easy to steer in the correct direction.
    My opinion is the meal times, less liquid at night helps me sleep. Other than that, not much benefit and sorry, the lemonade on the hour is not always easy to do when I am running around all the time.
    xo
    haggie

    ReplyDelete
  4. Damn- should have had Commando waiting for ya, Mateo.

    But yeah- I dig this post. Puritanism doesn't beget health when it comes to whole foods necessarily.

    ReplyDelete
  5. We tend to eat whole foods for meals and processed foods(other than fruits, which I'm obsessed(read pregnancy craving) with right now) for snacks. I tried for a while to have us just eating whole foods and found it was just too difficult and bothersome, plus I've never been one to deny myself something I really crave. Nice to hear I might be doing something right.

    Granted there are some foods that I just can't eat or they make me ill so I just stay away from them, mcdonalds for example, margarine for another. And I find things like grass fed beef a certain luxury I cannot afford and if I could I'd rather spend that money on other important things.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Has anyone read "Folk Medicine"? it talks about using urine PH to determine health and what to take if it becomes to alkaline. It also recommends using corn oil which I completely ignored until now! I am going to read it again to see how it relates to this RBTI.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Excellente Matteo - thanks. I probably need to chill on the McDonalds pumpkin spice milk shakes lol. Was losing weight at first but have recently way upped my junk food trying to fit in, lol. But I don't I ever got too radical with my diet except for a 6 month period of McDougalling - which overall I think was a net positive for me at that stage of my life.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Yo Matt! Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you essentially saying that we should not be afraid of eating refined, processed foods if we know they could be the ticket to a revival of health, particularly in an acute sense (and in the RBTI), however, we should still emphasize whole foods because they are like tickets to the maintenance of that health?

    I like what you say and how you say it. It really helped explain how both groups of food can be equally as appropriate for one's health.

    Killer post brobocop.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Yay, something new to read!

    Thanks for your post. Those thoughts were floating around in my mind, but far less cohesively. You're right, it was becoming a fierce show down.

    So... what do you think about RBTI long term? I'm fully on board with the short term miraculousness of it... but many new diets are fantastic for the first week, month, year, few years, and then fail, or at least plateau. I haven't felt like there are any good long-term testimonials yet.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Second question for anybody. Since a kit seems like it would be an xmas present to me at best, all I'm doing is the basics.

    We eat a good breakfast, then enough lunch till I want to puke. We eat plenty of fruit in the AM, and then some dessert (usually at 1:45 - which still cracks me up because the clock has less to do with the actual time of your location than the position of the sun - maybe everybody needs a sun dial in their kit). I try to drink lots in the AM too, although I'm not worrying about distilled or lemon.

    In the eve, a salad with raw veggies and cheese. Sometimes I cook veggies, which I know is the plan, but hey. And then if we're hungry, a few crackers or corn chips pre-bed.

    We don't knowingly eat pig, but I'm not fanatical about checking for gelatin in my supplements, and the pans have been pig-cookers in the past. No chocolate (which hasn't been all that bad), no nuts, no shellfish. I've cut back on sea salt, butter, and EVCO and upped the olive oil. Rarely pepper, no nutmeg or popcorn. Tea in the form of kombucha occasionally. I think that's the no list.

    I'm so thirsty at night, and even more so since I tried to cut back on water drinking in the eve. I think it's psychological, but I'm not sure. I try having a little ginger ale instead, but I end up gulping glasses of water and not being able to be satisfied. It's almost more like cotton mouth than actual thirst. So what's the deal with that?

    ReplyDelete
  11. Nice. Call the people who carefully try to use the best info they've got fanatics, and contrast them against people loving the Stripple bandwagon who just have "strong digestion". Matt, you're a badass master. Underhanded shaming is a Jedi skill.

    ReplyDelete
  12. And after 3 weeks, I am still hungry at night (almost all my calories used to be consumed between 5PM and midnight so I'm guessing that's still habit), but with the new eating pattern I'm eating less calories for sure, and my weight hasn't budged. I know, I need a kit and numbers, but since I'm not suffering from any acute disease at the moment, it's lower on the list than new tires (and yet higher than my citizenship application fees!).

    ReplyDelete
  13. Reposting in case Andrew has jumped over here.

    Lorelei aka Hawaiigirl said...

    Andrew, I wanted to add that another reason it's impossible to explain the science of RBTI is because Reams completely changed the meaning of all the science-y words he used.

    So, for example, in his version of science, potassium is an anion - because it fits his definition of anion - although every person who has ever studied chemistry, including my nine year old, can tell you that by normal definition, potassium in a cation.

    How can two people with completely different definitions of the same words even have a conversation??

    I think this carries over to Waychoff too, since Matt has pointed out some of his meanings, like that for vegan, are different than ours. Makes for lots of misunderstandings.

    ReplyDelete
  14. i agree, grassfed mama, w/ your 3 wheeled car analogy. i am also following the meal schedule but that's about it for now. challen's recs are so case dependent that it doesn't make much sense to do much else until finding out your numbers and consulting w/ challen. i am noticing a difference in how i feel when i wake up. i loved having a dessert at night and probably had done that for most of my life actually. i feel much better w/ the smaller evening meal and now sugar later in the day.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Matt, you were right. I thought you had gone off the deep end with the Peat worship, and you warned me about RBTI.

    Is there anything actually restricted on RRAARF anymore?

    This has become a joke.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Thanks for the props, Matt.

    Here's my favorite quote from the (almost) greatest film of all time:

    "Tracy: Do you know you have an animal growing out of your pants?

    Dooley: Thanks, hon. I also have a dog here."

    ReplyDelete
  17. Stabby is correct. You can fatten people up in a hurry on whole foods that have been processed to mimic modern industrial foods. You get the nutrients while avoiding the stuff that can get you long term. Some hard core paleos would call it "junk food re-enactment" lol.

    I think people get hung up on RBTI for humans because they forget it's core components are a healing therapy not a life-long diet. These kind of approaches can only be looked at backwards since they rarely have any clear "definitive" science supporting them.

    I had to "suspend" my belief back when I was actively involved with Dr. Schulze cuz despite my misgivings on some points it was a little difficult to dispute the myriad of people standing in the room with me who were healed of some nasty degenerative disease.

    Reams said at one point that he healed over 10,000 people from serious life threatening disease (and AFAIK, none of his "disciples" have come anywhere near that claim) yet he always maintained that RBTI for humans would be unnecessary if RBTI for agriculture were fully implemented.

    People who need the science before they move forward are never going to like Reams, in fact they are never going to like any "alternative" approach. It will all be "woo" to them. But for people who are desperate (and remember that is the milieu in which RBTI started) won't wait for science to get around to "proving" something true. Only folks who have time can have the luxury of engaging in such an enterprise.

    I had a good conversation with the Croatian giant last night. :-) Glad you enjoyed yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Lorelei, some thoughts.

    "...then enough lunch till I want to puke."

    If you're serious, this is too much food.

    "We eat plenty of fruit in the AM, and then some dessert..."

    Remember you're only supposed to do this if you're low brix. If you're
    not suffering hypoglycemic symptoms you probably shouldn't assume you're
    low brix.

    "I try to drink lots in the AM too..."

    I don't think you're supposed to try and drink a lot of water,
    especially the same water you've been drinking that has been pushing
    your PH to wherever it is.

    "I'm so thirsty at night...I end up gulping glasses of water and not
    being able to be satisfied."

    My experience is this happens when my digestion is having trouble,
    usually from overeating.

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  19. "I think people get hung up on RBTI for humans because they forget it's core components are a healing therapy"

    "People who need the science before they move forward are never going to like Reams"

    Michael hit it right on.

    Also lets not get too bent out of shape with the whole foods approach argument. RBTI is about numbers and moving those numbers in the right direction. If someone needs to use processed foods to accomplish this because their numbers are falling otherwise, then so be it if it allows them to heal.

    ReplyDelete
  20. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Ease of digestibility is a huge factor- I LOVE my white bread, sugar (brown just for taste), gelatin, and white rice!

    I was recently watching this horrible documentary called "Why Food Matters" and the bastards (pardon my french) were talking shit about how leukemia patents are fed "white bread, and Jello" when they are hospitalized! I about shat a brick- how dare they! I thought, "that is probably about all they can digest, in their weakened state, and one of the best things for them!"


    Also, I was briefly enrolled in a nutrition class (had to change it for scheduling) and the professor was obsessed with unprocessed foods- he said anything is healthy, as long as it is unprocessed (this is probably the most unscientific, and dumb statement I have ever heard in a science class)! It was downright silly!

    I am a big fan of processed foods that contain quality products! I got my friend's girlfriend to make me copious amounts of coconut oil/butter flour tortillas and pizza, and the best homemade pies I have ever had! I practically lived there for a week until they told me to go home and wait for a delivery of tortillas...

    But I certainly think eating margarine and especially non-hydrogenated vegetable oils is an idiotic idea.

    @Loreilei, you said, "another reason it's impossible to explain the science of RBTI is because Reams completely changed the meaning of all the science-y words he used.

    OMG is this true! To paraphrase Matt, Reams and Challen's material is a disgrace and insult to the English language! I find it a bit disgusting, personally.

    Awesome new post Matt!
    thanks,
    -Andrew

    ReplyDelete
  22. I came across a site based in the Netherlands that takes a well-reasoned approach to the No-No foods, as well as other elements of RBTI that some of us here are struggling with.
    http://www.rbti.info/Foods/no-no-foods.html

    ReplyDelete
  23. Glad to see some more clarification. My brix numbers are consistantly high. Before I got the refractometer, I thought I was suffering low blood sugar.... Nay, Nay. Haggis is right, you need the numbers to really know.

    Guess I'll need to cut back on the ice cream.

    Also, I am freaking hungry from 4 pm on. This is the hardest part of the day. I hope it gets better.

    Deedle

    ReplyDelete
  24. I can only speak from my experience.

    I have low brix. When I eat simple carbs it does quickly raise my brix level. However, two hours later I crash hard. If I eat simple sugars like honey, maple syrup, rice syrup I might not even get a boost in the brix, it often just flattens me. This is what I was trying to explain to Challen when I was drinking the lemonade and taking the supplements. I quit both. I couldn't for the life of me keep my brix up! Challen insisted I use the sugars.

    Now that I am off the supps, lemonade, and simple sugars/carbs
    I am doing much better.

    My brix does fall if I eat greens/salads alone. I must include fruits, and complex carbs.

    I am juicing tons of veggies, and fruits. This is helping me greatly!

    I actually went clothes shopping yesterday in a local store. I didn't shop long, but it is a first in a long time! :)

    So, I am happy I bought the kit, and learned about my numbers. I won't be doing the lemonade or supps. I will be testing, and tweaking! I am thankful for the refractometer! It is teaching me what foods work best in my body!

    I am bummed I can't handle the whole program. Maybe once I am well nourished I can try it again?

    However, I don't know that I can use Challen. He doesn't seem to get the rule that (some people with hypoglycemia are sensitive to certain carbs, nothing can be done but remove the offending carbs)

    I could eat a bowl of ice cream, and my brix would fall to .5 in very little time. I can't handle sugar.

    I tested the Happy Meal theory out on this past Sunday. I ate the cheeseburger, fries, and an apple pie. Two hours later my brix was
    .5 :(

    Trust me, I don't want this to be true for me. I love some cake, and cookies as much as the next girl. Yet, having sustained energy to live my life is where it is at.

    Oh, I will say Challen did acknowledge that honey was a problem for me, but that was as far as he was willing to go.
    He also helped me to stop drinking water. That has been a life saver too. :) That is why I started juicing my own juice. Commercial juices don't last long either before my brix is flat. I juice veggies, and fruit together and this is working wonderful. :)

    The days are getting better daily. The nights can still be a problem with low brix. :(

    Thanks Matt,

    Betty

    ReplyDelete
  25. Stabby,

    I agree. Too, I am doing better doing just that!

    Betty

    ReplyDelete
  26. Betty, Are you still avoiding the no no foods? Just curious.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hi again, Betty, Do you also know what kind of condition your liver is in or what condition it was in while you were doing the the whole thing, based on your readings? Again, just curious. Thanks! Glad you are feeling better!

    ReplyDelete
  28. Betty-

    Thanks for the feedback. Ice cream, pies, pastries, alcohol, caffeine - these have all been known since the beginning of freaking time to be the greatest aggravators of hypoglycemia.

    Now, having said that, the idea with RBTI is not to avoid the triggers of hypoglycemia but overcome the tendency to have sugars crash upon ingestion of such things. I think this is a much more admirable objective - and the minerals can supposedly do wonders for stabilizing body chemistry long term.

    If you do try things like cake or ice cream, try just a few bites. I have found this to be a great stabilizer. Eating too much just causes more of a roller coaster ride.

    Hawaii Girl-

    I wouldn't try hard to overeat midday. In fact, Pip for example has much less hunger late in the day if she eats a normal-sized lunch to appetite. Whereas overdoing it makes her crash.

    Drinking water can make the mouth dryer, induce low sugar, and exacerbate the whole process. I think one of the most amazing things I've witnessed on this is drinking only about 6 ounces of skim milk from 3:30 pm to 8am the next morning - 16.5 hours with only 6 ounces of fluids.

    And yet, I wake up with no thirst, a moist mouth, and pee clear. Durianrider says we should all be "pissin clear." He may be right. Only I don't have to drink water to achieve that haha.

    I never would have thought that was possible 2 months ago. One of the many weird things that came true just as Challen said it would.

    But if you are trying to guess whether or not you have high sugar or low sugar without testing, pay attention to how frequently you urinate and how strong the urge is. The more you pee the lower your sugars typically are.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Rob-

    Commando would have totally won it. Better luck next time.

    Ivan-

    If only I could have shouted louder. You da man. And I will read that book!

    ReplyDelete
  30. @Matt,
    So, if I have high brix numbers, wouldn't I want to drink more water...or do I also stop drinking after a certain time of day?
    Deedle

    ReplyDelete
  31. Thanks, Matt, for stepping in and sharing some more, and for being a voice of moderation.

    I especially appreciate that clue about guessing high or low sugar: something's 'off' with me atm (I 'borrowed' from myself energetically for a couple weeks and am paying the price a bit) and one of the things I notice is that I'm urgent to pee super-regularly. Suggesting low sugar, per your tip, which is probably what I'd have suspected.

    Trying the thee meals no snacks thing, still having a real hard time with it. I'm wondering if there are any tips to make it easier. I also know that for me, it's a huge opportunity to start reducing what I eat again--I almost can't help it!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Great comment, Michael.

    //subscribing//

    ReplyDelete
  33. Well, I have to pee A LOT. But then, I drink a lot. Terrified of going into the evening hungry or thirsty. Don't do well with deprivation. I'll have to try to cut back both food and water...

    ReplyDelete
  34. Matt, great comments! Does lactose not count as a sweet in rbti (re. no meat/sweet after 2 thing)?

    Also, would drinking whiskey (or lemon water) while spinning brodies in the desert and shooting shotguns out of the back of the truck have won? It can always be arranged here in AZ if your ever inclined(although I'm no 80's movie professor, i am a fairly quick learner). ;)

    Thanks for sharing experiences guys!
    Sincerely,
    -Andrew

    ReplyDelete
  35. "Remember folks, being open minded and being willing to question old beliefs is good.

    Being so open minded you brain falls out is bad.

    Hold firmly to what you know with a high degree of certainty and examine new information for contradictions. Always."

    -Brock, comment from March, speakin wisdom.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Deedle-

    Yes, you want to try drinking distilled water systematically - 4 ounces every hour for about 8 hours a day.

    But you stop drinking at 3:30pm no matter who you are or what your refractometer reading is in the evening (typically much higher for most people).

    If you start urinating frequently, stop drinking water and eat a bite of fruit.

    Ela-


    When you have to pee urgently, eat 1-2 bites of fruit. That's it. That will be your snack as well if you are feeling off at 11:00 and 3:00, typical times to see a sugar crash.

    I wouldn't drink much water if any at all, but have 4 ounces of juice every hour or so, stopping at 3pm.

    Hawaii Girl-

    Drinking and peeing all the time keeps your sugar levels in the basement. If you do drink water, drink no more than 4 ounces at a time. If you start peeing a lot, stop drinking water and eat 1-2 bites of fruit. Only resume drinking again when it has been a couple hours since you have urinated. Drink most of your fluids and eat most of your food early in the day. Drink Ginger Ale in the evening or something if you are thirsty, but see if you can get past this evening thirst thing. It shouldn't take that long.

    Andrew
    Lactose is not considered a "sweet."

    Lemonade it is. That's way more hardcore than whiskey.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Sarah,

    Yes, I am still avoiding the no no
    foods. :)

    Challen did say my numbers were the numbers of someone malnourished. I have autoimmune issues, and IBS. These hinder nutrient absorbtion greatly.
    All the water I was drinking compounded the problem.

    No, I don't know the condition of my liver. I do think RBTI believes all problems originate in the liver. That would mean I have a liver problem.

    Matt,

    It would be great to take the supps and, overcome hypoglycemia.
    Maybe in the future, I will try it again.

    Betty

    ReplyDelete
  38. MATT-

    “Minds are like parachutes – they only work when they are open.”

    Awesome!

    I am still missing two chemicals from my kit so at the moment I have only been able to test sugars and PH.
    My sugars tend to be higher in the morning 2,4 and low at night 1,0.
    I am certain my sugar have been lower than 1,0 since I didn't feel nearly as bad as I did in the beginning. I pee first thing in the morning but then not so much for the rest of the early hours. I try to drink all my water here. At night I have to pee much more and it is clear.
    Would you suggest I start drinking juice at night to keep my sugar from falling and keep me from urinating?
    Also, how is it possible for me to have a sugar reading of 1,0 at 8 pm, eating 1 single grape and then having a sugar reading of 2,4 the next morning at 7 am??

    Btw, I have lost 7-8kgs since Juli and I am still loosing.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I just found your blog through I believe it was MDA. I really like this "self-testing style" you have. I will have to work my way back trough all the posts to really understand what's going on but I'm looking forward to it. :)

    Thanks for sharing your experiences!

    Jen

    ReplyDelete
  40. If digestibility is a big deal breaker in health and the fact we can actually absorb junk food - How about the use of smoothies, which include wholefoods? Would this not supply the nutrients in an easy to absorb package?

    Does this also mean good things for protein powders as they are readily absorbed....

    ReplyDelete
  41. I haven't gotten my kit yet, but just stopping drinking so much water has helped me a ton. I used to have to pee all of the time, because "everyone is supposed to drink so much water every day" I didn't realize that it was tanking my sugars. I feel like my mood has stabalized just since incorporating this one thing.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Lorelei

    "Terrified of going into the evening hungry or thirsty."

    This is very unhealthy.

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  43. DCX - I am the hyperbole queen... but yes, it is a psychological fear of being deprived of food. Never been anorexic, but used to be all shaky and puke if I got too hungry between meals - until the 180 style potato binging. Funny though, I'm able to water fast for up to 5 days or juice fast for weeks. So, I know I can go w/out. Sort of.

    Matt - 3 weeks w/out potatoes seems to have reduced my, um, previous enjoyment of conjugal relations :(

    Maybe it will rebound. Notice anything like that?

    Should AM water be distilled, or not mess with it if I don't have a kit?

    Do you think Kombucha is ok - or at least better than water? It satisfies my thirst, and I don't really like pop or store milk (our milk source is dry for two more months). I make it not very sweet.

    Betty - I'm sorry to hear it didn't work for you.

    TMI OT note. Daughter reached menarche at the exact US average age of 12.5 last night. Seriously bummed, was hoping our last 3 years of plastic and CAFO avoidance would have delayed it...

    ReplyDelete
  44. Hawaiigirl,
    Challen emailed me last week and told me it was ok to start drinking distilled water and cutting out the no-no foods without a kit or testing.

    I bought skim milk for the first time in 10 years today. Still getting raw milk for the kids.
    Deedle

    ReplyDelete
  45. Deedle - did he give you a drinking schedule, or just drink distilled instead of regular? All water should be distilled? I'm confused whether all drinking and cooking water should be replaced. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  46. Hey again Matt! I'm apologize in advance for these uber long post.

    ok, I've been confused about RBTI, nutrition, processed vs. unprocessed foods, and everything diet-wise as of late...

    So I know RBTI is basically about getting the numbers into a place where someone can digest and assimilate food, vitamins and minerals.

    Now. the supplements play a HUGE part in the recovery of health correct? I mean, someone who was unhealthy couldn't recover their health on a diet devoid of nutrients even their numbers (pattern) were put into a perfect place...right?

    So, say, you were to have a diet that did not affect the pattern of you numbers, so you had a perfect assimilation of vitamins and minerals. However, the diet you're eating is very deficient in said vitamins and minerals. There wouldn't be any vitamins and minerals to absorb and metabolize, so your health would be hurt in a big way right?

    Like, I've been eating a lot of honey and maple syrup and stuff like that and eating the RBTI way, but I'm not taking any supplements, doing the water, or even testing out my numbers or anything. Am I hurting my health by eating foods that lack vitamins and minerals, even if I am technically eating in the RBTI way and avoiding no foods?

    Also, is it right to say that your energy level and reserves decide how well you can digest things while the pattern of your numbers decide how well you assimilate nutrients and vitamins and what not from that food? That's why RBTI people are so focused on easy to digest foods...because unhealthy people can't digest them, and therefore can't get the nutrients. Now, say you recovered you're health to 100%. You can digest anything. So, now a lot of the foods on the no list can be readily digested (like whole milk and butter, for instance) and you can absorb the nutrients and thus maintain health. So, those foods are now perfect for your body, rather than hurtful? am i right?

    My thoughts have been racing for some reason...it's so annoying. I'd rather be given something to eat that I know is going to hurt my body, than be given something that I don't know what it's doing. I just can't stand being unsure.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Hello, 180 folks!

    Quick question for Matt or others who know people who have done well on RBTI:

    If you had an acquaintance with stage IV cancer, would you clue his/her spouse in to Dr. Waychoff? Or just let them be in peace? I ask because I don't know enough about him and his practice. Has he actually brought people back from very advanced cancer?

    The last thing I want to do is cause more pain in this family's life by offering dumb advice, or false hope, etc.

    Thank you for any insight.

    Steph

    ReplyDelete
  48. Lorelei,

    Thanks you.

    However, don't waste one second thinking I am sad about my experience with RBTI. I am not.
    I have learned more about my health from RBTI than I have from M.D.'s, Chiro's, N.D.'s etc....
    I have spent less money with RBTI, and have gained actual tools, and health facts that have greatly improved my life.

    Now that I understand what my trouble has been all these years I am hopeful to get a good balance of my sugars, gain energy, and perhaps slowly introduce the supps, and lemon water again.

    As I have said before, the lemonade drops the brix. The supps, drop the brix too. I was getting slammed, and I had zero reserve energy to cope.
    So, I still hold hope for the future.

    I am thankful Matt went this direction!


    Betty

    ReplyDelete
  49. Lorelei

    "I am the hyperbole queen..."

    That's cool. I just wanted you to notice that particular bit in addition to your RBTI happenings. =)

    ReplyDelete
  50. HawaiiGirl,
    Challen did not give me a schedule and now I know why. He needs my numbers. Also, I have been replacing my cooking water for things like oatmeal (especially after testing my water with the conuctivity meter- holy cow)!
    I made the plunge today and got the rest of the equipment. Now I don't have to guess at this anymore. I am still skeptical- so we'll see how it goes.
    Deedle

    ReplyDelete
  51. My sugar fell to 0,3 tonight. Funny thing, I didn't feel to bad (guess I am used to the feeling by now) other than cold hands and a little lethargic.
    Do I eat a spoonful of sugar in a situation like that or do I just nibble on a fruit?

    I can't seem to keep my sugars up at night.

    ReplyDelete
  52. @ Sheila
    When the Brix drops below 1.2 you should take some fruit, since your body can't heal below 1.2. But since yours is really low, I would wonder if you would drink too much. However, since this happens in your sleep, there are other problems.

    Normally if a person's Brix drop that low, I do not care what kind of sugar a person takes. Not taking it is worse.

    ReplyDelete
  53. WILLIAM-

    Thanks for your comment. I drink less than 1 L. of water a day. During the day I am fine but when the evening comes on, it drops and I don't even drink water after 2 pm. I start peeing clear. Sometimes I wonder where all the water comes from, since I don't put any fluids in my body?? My brix reading at 0.3 was at 6.40 pm so not at night but in the evening.
    It's definitely food for thought that the body can't heal below 1.2 because I have been having this pee pattern for a LONG time. Seems like I am only in the healing range half of the freaking day.

    ReplyDelete
  54. @Sheila
    you said your sugars were .3 'tonight' and you could not keep it up at night. For me it made sense you were meaning during the night. Sorry I misunderstood. It is normal your sugars will drop a bit during the day, and will climb during the night, to come down while waking up, and slowly decreasing during the day.
    As for the urine being clear: do you also mean you have no cell debris / particles? If not, you are not replacing enough cells.

    ReplyDelete
  55. William,
    can you explain the answer you gave to Sheila about the inadequate replacement of cells? what does that mean? is there something to correct it?
    (I am not doing RBTI, I am just having the same urination pattern and definitely some sugar issues)
    thank's
    Sophia

    ReplyDelete
  56. Thanks, Matt--wow, seriously almost no water at all? It's interesting, I drink probably two quarts first thing in the morning between herbal tea and lemon water, but don't usually drink much the rest of the day. My husband keeps reminding me to 'stay hydrated.'

    What kind of juice? I fell in love with oj and other fruit juices earlier this summer but quit drinking juice a month or so ago, worried about too-easy calories...

    ReplyDelete
  57. Matt, you said that having to pee frequently is a definite low sugar sign, but are there others? I don't have to pee very often and I don't really drink very much and seem fine with that these days, but I do have mood issues and anxiety etc. when i don't get enough to eat or go too long between eating. My stomach is always rumbling in the early morning hours and I start wigging out while fixing breakfast if i don't eat right away. And I always assumed this was a sugar issue...?

    Also, someone on the rbti Facebook group mentioned that Challen would not be able to read our numbers correctly the first time if we newbies start changing our diets and meal timing and drinking distilled in general. I haven't made any drastic changes yet, but I certainly won't now if that is true until I can get tested.

    ReplyDelete
  58. So, come to find out a person can indeed eat too often.

    For the past several months I've more or less been eating all day from the moment I get up, until maybe an hour before I go to bed. I eliminated the nono foods. didn't notice a big change, just gained some extra lean body mass. I then started drinking lemonade. That seemed to help, but instead of falling asleep at 5am it was 3am. then i started eating all my food within a 6 hour window. I've been reading some studies which show that eating the majority of your calories later (5pm or so) shows increased lean body mass and decreased body fat in comparison to most of your calories in the AM, and I wanted to see if I would still achieve the same benefits everyone does when the switch to the "RBTI meal timings", which is really just intermittent fasting. Plus, my lifestyle (student) in combination with my insomnia has been making it hard for me to get up early enough to eat, let alone cook, a big meal.

    it's only been a week, but i'm definitely getting tired sooner, i'm leaning out yet gaining muscle mass (my weight is dropping and my face is looking thinner/tummy is flatter despite my pants getting tighter), and i have way more energy. like, before i had absolutely no desire to move much during the day except to get food or lay down. this includes sex. also, if i would try to move at a "normal" pace, i would get stressed out and irritable. i also noticed my creativity was the lowest it's been years. now it's at the highest i've ever had it. dunno if the huge increase in creativity is going to last, but judging from others the sleep thing should be, and that's my #1 concern at the moment.

    i now eat 80%+ of my calories within a 6 hour window. i've been selecting fruit or juice as breakfast. It's almost midnight and I'm tired, but not quite tired enough to fall asleep (just tired enough to make writing and organizing my thoughts a bit of a challenge haha). definitely still some adapting left to be done, but i'm happy as hell.

    -Anonymous

    ReplyDelete
  59. Also, my temps have been sucking the past couple months. They were at a a solid 98.6, then "randomly" dropped to the 97s. every time i'd make a change that would show a temp increase, with in a couple weeks it'd go back down. my waking temp the past couple days has been 98.0, so maybe this was why my body temp dipped?

    that is to say, i was eating so often that my body never got a chance

    i have noticed that for several months now my face has looked worn and i even had pretty bad crows feet (i'm freaking 23). the crows feet are nearly completely gone, and my skin looks waaaaaay better. not quite as great looking as even 4 years ago, but it's only been a week.

    i wouldn't be surprised if that is why when matt first started drinking a lot of juice why he saw "improvements in signs of aging"; he was giving his digestive tract a rest.

    -Anonymous

    ReplyDelete
  60. Also, my temps have been sucking the past couple months. They were at a a solid 98.6, then "randomly" dropped to the 97s. every time i'd make a change that would show a temp increase, with in a couple weeks it'd go back down. my waking temp the past couple days has been 98.0, so maybe this was why my body temp dipped?

    that is to say, i was eating so often that my body never got a chance to do much of anything else but focus on digesting. i wonder if RRARF is best done in an "intermittent fast" style of food timing?

    i have noticed that for several months now my face has looked worn and i even had pretty bad crows feet (i'm freaking 23). the crows feet are nearly completely gone, and my skin looks waaaaaay better. not quite as great looking as even 4 years ago, but it's only been a week.

    i wouldn't be surprised if that is why when matt first started drinking a lot of juice why he saw "improvements in signs of aging"; he was giving his digestive tract a rest.

    ReplyDelete
  61. WILLIAM-

    Sorry for the confusion. Night/evening -it's all the same in my end ;-D
    I haven't checked for particles when my pee is clear (thanks for reminding me) but in general I have very few particles. For some reason I thought that was a good thing. But when you say it reflects exchange of cells, it makes sense.
    Well my sugar is highest in the mornings, all the way till 5-6 pm, then it's dropping and I am not sure it would go back up during the night (sleep) if I didn't "force" it up by eating some fruit, late in the evening.
    Yesterday when my sugar dropped to 0.3 I was able to get it back up by eating dinner (veggies) at 6 pm and then a piece of fruit at 8 pm. At 9 pm my brix was at 2,9.
    After you told me that a brix of less than 1.2 was worse than a brix to high, I promised myself that I wouldn't go to bed before I had increased my brix. -And so I did, and I succeeded. Yay!

    ReplyDelete
  62. @Sophia
    There are two explanations: the simple and short one and the long one.

    If the body has the right building blocks, it will replace the cells when that is needed. The replaced cells, or the debris from that, that passes the kidneys will be expelled in the urine. So if a person is stable in weight and has no cell debris (aka albumin) in the urine, no cells are replaced.

    While I personally believe the short version is true, it is only half the truth. I have found that many don't know the other half:
    The cell debris that is in the blood and goes through the liver, can be picked up by the liver depending on how well it is functioning, and be taken apart to form new building blocks for cells. These are not secondhand building blocks, they are taken completely apart and are completely rebuild. How well your liver does that depends on your chemistry. The residue that remains after breaking down the cells in the liver seems to be part of the bile, but that is up for debate.
    Now please do note that even if the liver should pick up every particle of cell debris that runs through it, there will still be particles that will go to the kidneys first and are expelled there. But if the liver will pick up every particle, your cell debris / albumin will be really low.

    If you do the math and calculate the cell exchange, you will find confirmation that using just the short explanation does not give a full answer.

    With the above in mind, you would expect a higher amount of cell debris / albumin in the urine if a person is loosing weight, and a lower amount if a person is fasting. Some people who are in the last days of stage 5 cancer have been reported to have a cell debris / albumin of 0. The body is simply shutting down. Having numbers that are not perfect, will tell you that the liver is not perfect. In that case very low cell debris / albumin is not a good thing.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Thank you William,
    Sophia

    ReplyDelete
  64. (I do not know how notifications work, can someone please tell me how to sign up for replies? I have no Google account to use.

    @ William, I believe your path and mine may have been more similar than different. I too have spent time in India and Asia, and studied much in comparative religions. I said I was a former seminary student. It is in fact the same things you bring up that caused me to discontinue the seminary. I realized I would not be able to answer questions for others if I could not answer them myself, and placing myself as an authority would be proud folly. My path is certainly not any better than yours. :)

    Of course I do not judge, only witness. I am very in line with your thoughts on respect.

    I am curious. You mentioned that PHi(?) and other numbers are controlled by the brain. Is this some kind of chemical thing or is it actual thoughts?

    For an example. Do types of thoughts deemed biblically immoral cause the numbers to go away from "perfect"? You know the thoughts I mean I hope.

    Also, do any of the following cause the numbers to change in a bad way:

    -Sex with someone other than your spouse
    -Sex before marriage
    -Sex using non-drug birth control (condoms free of pork products, diaphrams and so on)
    -Sex with multiple partners, as in casual dating, even if it is done safely and all are healthy
    -Oral sex, male or female
    -Masturbation, male or female
    -Certain sexual positions
    -Homosexuality or bisexuality
    -Having sex or kissing a person who eats pork or the forbidden foods
    -Having sex while a woman is on her cycle
    -Looking at sexually arousing images

    Since you are someone who seems to have the best general amount of information, do any of these things happen to move the numbers away from perfect?

    ReplyDelete
  65. @Sheila
    Thank you for your feedback. But please also do keep in mind that you should adapt your diet so that it does not get that low. In every person the numbers will go up and down, without a better word, and my limited understanding of English, I call that a wobble. You should really not wait to correct it after you are that low, but before.

    You are the prime example why so many, including me, believe it is best to start consulting with 3 sets of numbers (2 hours after breakfast, lunch and diner of the same day). It shows the wobble a bit. But even without knowing how the wobble forms, it can be predicted a bit with one set of numbers.

    Given the feedback here, Challen seems to claim that people who need more then one test don't get it. Reams used to test people 3 times or more in his retreat.

    I use whatever I can. If a person has a test-kit and can test multiple times a day, I would ask to run a (partial) test about 3 times a day for a day or two if there is a huge wobble. I found that most people who do that do not find it a burden, and a fair amount will actually start to feel it when certain numbers are high or low. When you work with your own numbers, and can not only see the result, but also feel it, RBTI becomes fun.

    ReplyDelete
  66. @Mordecai
    Did I make yet another type saying 'PHi'? What I probably meant was 'pH's'. I can't find the exact sentence you were referring to, sorry.

    The brain communicates in different ways, chemical, electrical and the more modern part: by frequencies (like sound waves). I did not study the last part extensively, and research is promising, but also a bit immature.

    Now what I believe is that the body is a whole. Getting the ingredients of live together and cooking a human out of it can not be done. Every cell is connected and the body knows what is going on. That is not the conscious brain, but more the unconscious. Most, like me, have learned not to listen to the unconscious part.
    It is the unconscious part that controls body functions. Your conscious brain can only tell it to do. Since the most have learned to only place bridges where absolutely necessary, most cannot control their heartbeat for instance. The ones who can are considered freaks by some.

    As for how it is controlled, chemically or thoughts: take chemicals (drugs), and you will see they form or change thoughts. Look for the research how frequencies (sounds primarily) and chemicals (smells primarily) are used to alter people's behavior. There is one car brand here in Europe that has an option where it keeps track of how often you blink. If it thinks you fall asleep it will release a smell.
    Huge warehouses have been forced to stop using chemicals to increase their sales.

    Dr. Reams taught that the body has a bigger impact on the mind then the mind on the body. He also claimed that hate in your heart can be one of the causes of cancer.
    Dr. Gary Martin studied quite a bit about your questions, and with his answers he transformed RBTI into BIRI. Obviously most doing RBTI will claim the additions he made to be incorrect. Obviously he claims them to be correct.
    His research showed that persons with 'issues' will not reach perfect numbers. Their health will plateau at a certain point and will not get better. I would say that this plateau is the perfect health given the (mental) issues.

    All that you mention will change the chemistry, since it changes the mind. Having sex does, no matter with whom, when of why. If it changes the numbers for the worse depends on how you deal with it. Homosexuality is an effect, not a cause, but the effect can be the cause of something else.
    If a person is sleeping around while being married, he / she knows that to be a bad thing. It will cause different behavior, looking at others differently and yes, adding all the above may result in a lifelong change in chemistry. Can it be seen in the numbers? It is very hard. For a person with my limited knowledge of RBTI it is now impossible.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Following the RBTI meal timing is NOT working out for me at all. That's all I was doing, and trying to drink a bit less water, and taking Min-col. I've been on a blood sugar roller-coaster, with it mostly crashing, and also think I may be dealing with anemia again. I've been shaky, dizzy, lightheaded, serious trouble concentrating, worse that I've ever been. So, I'm stopping all of that now, except maybe try to avoid the no-no foods, no meat after 2 and taking Min-col. I think until I test my numbers, it's not doing me any good. My signs of aging are looking worse, too. My skin looks dry and bad.

    I was taking maca for a couple of months this spring and that actually really helped me feel better, so I'm going back to that, and taking a multi-vitamin plus min-col and vit D. When I can afford it, I'll buy the test kit, but it has been an unmitigated disaster to just try out the principles. Whatever my numbers are, I'm certain I've been doing the wrong thing the past week or so, never felt so bad in my entire life.

    ReplyDelete
  68. AMy, have you actually read what Matt has said about what Challen has said?
    If your numbers are all over the place and you actually start the healing process, it ain't gonna be pretty.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Amy
    You have to drop the big bucks and tie yourself to Challen the knower of all if you want to really do Rbti without feeling like crap.. Until Matt becomes a full on " reader ".. everything else you read or see here is marketing to get you to that point

    ReplyDelete
  70. Amy,

    It is the min-col causing this reaction. If you can tolerate it long enough your body will adjust.
    That, and the lemonade is why everyone feels so sick.

    If you started like me with zero reserve energy, then I think you will have to build reserve energy first. Otherwise you will be too weak to cope. Or at least that was true for me.

    Betty

    ReplyDelete
  71. Thanks for that info, Betty. I was thinking your experience sounded a bit like mine. How do you go about building reserve energy? I haven't tested anything so feel like I'm kind of shooting in the dark here. I was just going to work on balancing out my blood sugar (using conventional methods), but maybe I should stop taking min-col in the meantime.

    I felt so bad I didn't feel like it was detox or whatever, but I guess that makes sense.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Great blog Matt. Clears a lot of things up.

    Honestly a lot of this RBTI business reminds me of refeeding and my own recovery from eating disorders.

    So much about my inpatient program was just trying to get us information-obsessives to stop thinking about calories and fat grams and sugar and Healthy Things. Just get as much food into our poor undernourished bodies and brains as possible!

    One of the intermediate things we had to do was come up with new rules that would make it OK for us to eat high-cal stuff. Because it was totally impossible for most of us to let go and have *no* rules at all. Not right off the bat.

    It seems like this is a lot of what RBTI is about - not just good nutrition but having a structure that makes someone feel in control. RItuals are a big part of control, just ask any serious bulimic or anorexic.

    Sadly, me especially. Like I remember how I loooved watching the clock, collecting the rights foods and equipment, checking the scale after meals, reading labels, all of that. I used a lot of laxatives too. I had to replace those with other just as regular rituals to make eating the "bad foods" okay in recovery. I couldn't just eat, I still needed to have a goal attached and a way to measure it. I just needed to distract myself with a new set of information that would let me eat normally.

    It seems like this would be a really good way for someone to still feel very in control while getting themself to relax the orthorexic grip. Keep from going off on a crazy junk food binge but still feel healthy. And have lots of high pleasure foods, which are sooo important to fight that feeling of deprevation. I can still remember my first bite of ice cream after four years of starving myself and worrying, it was like a physical rush just to tell myself it was OK! Psychology and goal rewards have so much effect on feeling better, especially for sick bods.
    Phoebee

    ReplyDelete
  73. Hi Betty and Amy,

    My experience with min-col seems like the experience as you two. Betty, did Challen tell you it was the min-col or was that your deduction? Just curious. Were you taking any other supplements? I went to just taking one a day at dinner time about a month ago or so and that helped a lot. Been doing that since and much better. I am not tested yet, so I don't have other supps yet.

    I have blood sugar lows and highs so I felt like I was on a rollercoaster as well. Much easier to manage on a lower dose for now. I know I'm depleted but can only do so much. Feeling better with the diet stuff.

    Happy days,
    Koreen

    ReplyDelete
  74. Amy,

    I don't know your trigger foods
    (foods that cause your sugar to drop) I am just now learning mine.
    That is why I love the refractometer! I can observe how my body response simply by checking my brix.

    Thus far I am having ups and downs as I experiment with foods. I can only speak from my opinion concerning reserve energy. I feel certain if I can keep my sugar from dropping for several consecutive days/months etc... Then, I will be building reserve energy. Even now, still having ups and downs I am getting stronger. I have become very aware of the sensations in my body right as the fall begins, I am learning to eat right away so far I haven't fell below a .9 in a few days now. This is excellent as I was hitting .3 to 0 several times throughout the day. When I was doing the supps/lemonade I was less than .5 most all day, regardless of what or how much I ate.

    Koreen,

    No Challen didn't tell me the Min-Col caused low brix. That is my reasonable deduction. Too, my husband took some (one min-col and one calcium gluconate) He was curious how he would react. He took them, and went to Church. He left Church early because he was sick. He came home and described the exact sensations we are all describing. I was taking 2 min-col three times a day, two calcium gluconate three times a day, and 1 calcium lactate.

    I did try to take just one min-col.
    I was still to deplete to handle it. I am hoping to try again in the future. My plan will be to dilute one min-col in a days worth of juice, and take over 8-10 hours.
    It will be some time before I attempt such, as I am not strong enough yet.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Been following the schedule (though not all the No foods yet just pork) and been feeling pretty good. I don't think eating heavy late at night ever agreed with me. Mornings are so much easier now.

    I'm sorry though, there is no way in heck I'll be drinking any amount of distilled water.

    I'm a caretaker for someone with sleep apnea who has to use a breathing machine at night, and its required to fill up the humidifer with distilled H20 to prevent mineral buildup. We have to replace the machine's rubber tubing every few weeks because distilled water is so corrosive, it eats right through. I was told the acid level of distilled water increases chances of bacteria and fungal growth in them too.

    I don't even want to think about the stuff dissolving from plastic bottles into that water...might as well just grind down some empty milk jugs make a BPA tea out of it and drink up. Blech.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Betty,

    Thank you kindly for the response. It's comforting to know that someone else was feeling the same way as me. I think healing with RBTI may need a more subtle or slower approach for many of us. It's best you listened to your body and instincts.

    I waited just shy of 2 weeks before I started up on the min-col again. I take it with dinner only and noticed less daytime ups and downs. Not perfect, but easier to control. I may increase it in a month or so to twice a day. We'll see.

    I wish you well.

    Koreen

    ReplyDelete
  77. Thanks, Betty and Koreen. I'm not sure of my triggers. I know sugar (in any form) is definitely one. Starch seems to keep my BS stable. I was taking 4 min-col so I'll try cutting back and watching the blood sugar (instinctively at first, and will buy a refractomer once I can afford it) and see what happens. I'm eating more at night for now, because I think I need to.

    Interestingly, my teeth seem a bit whiter (they were somewhat transparent), so despite the roller coaster, I think they are having an effect after just a little over a week.

    ReplyDelete
  78. The woman on the blog ( http: //tranlifelab.com/twin-refractometers/ ) compared the refractometer from Challen's kit and one for $30 and found them almost identical. The readout differed by up to 0.1%.

    So do yourself a favor and buy the cheaper one.

    ReplyDelete
  79. /blink/

    Err. Wasn't that the refractmeter that was supposed to be the most rare expensive part of the four hundred $ kit?

    It's a $30 piece of aluminum?

    Really sorry Matt, I've been high interest so far but this is sounding sketchier and sketchier.

    Kate

    ReplyDelete
  80. The light night meals have been really hard for me as well. I seem to do better having a light meal for breakfast or no breakfast at all. I feel pretty isolated from my family and friends while they eat, so, it has been a struggle. I'm just going to go with my body signals right now until I can test ALL of the numbers. There is no sense in suffering unnecessarily or trying to guess. Hoping for clarity soon.

    ReplyDelete
  81. LOL @ Indrek comment

    You're right Matt.. Minds are like parachutes. They're also like wallets - they only work to get you screwed when you open them without thinkin !

    ReplyDelete
  82. @rbti people, since you take lots of calcium with every meal what do you think about calcium interfering with absorption of other minerals

    ReplyDelete
  83. You can find 0-32% refractometers pretty cheap on eBay, shipped from Hong Kong.

    Just looked at Tran's blog and realised that the refractometer I bought is exactly the same as the one in Challen's kit.

    My 'sugars' come out at between 5 and 7, depending on the time of the day. No idea what that means.

    I'm going to test the brix of some home grown vs. supermarket vegetables for shits and giggles.

    ReplyDelete
  84. @ Mark: Interesting about the distilled water making the tubing more prone to fungus/bacteria overgrowth. The RBTI 'rule' (or is it just a suggestion?) to switch up your meals every day now makes a lot more sense. I think it's a pretty silly thing to have to do, especially as it's not clear what things you need to rotate, since cookies and pies (for those who eat them) are usually always made with wheat. Yet, it's important to switch your vegetables and oils...and maybe meats as well? I'm not sure. But when you consider that a lot of healthy people eat the same things every day without becoming overrun with 'parasites', then the distilled water would seem to be the connection there. But who knows...it's all so nebulous, even though it's based on 'numbers'.

    @terpol: that's my understanding of calcium as well...that it tends to compete with other minerals, and wins out.

    @ Mordecai and William: wow, the plot thickens. Reading this blog is like reading a good mystery novel. Thanks for revealing the 'dark underbelly' (ha ha!) of RBTI. My apologies, though, if you don't find that comment funny. I'm not trying to offend and I don't have any 'religious intolerance.' I'm way too curious in general. But really, thanks for your candor and willingness to be open. I think it's important for everyone to know all of the details....

    ReplyDelete
  85. Could someone please give me Challen's office phone number.

    ReplyDelete
  86. I've been trying RBTI for about a week now. I don't have specific recommendations other than drink lots of water since my ureas were high in my first test. I will have to retest but we here in Mpls are only getting one kit which hasn't arrived yet.

    My impressions, for those that are interested:
    RBTI seems to fit in well with intuition. They say eat light and no meats or sweets after 2pm and after you've been on the program a few days, that is how you will feel like eating in the evening. And the water recommendation for me is spot on... as long as I have the bottle there I keep reaching for it mindlessly, and when I measure it's right on track for where I'm supposed to be. Those are just a couple examples.

    As for body temps, I know a lot of people have been asking this. My impression is that there's not a direct relation, but RBTI will help if anything. I think it depends to some extent on the types of foods eaten. Mine still bounce around a bit but I hit 98.0 underarm twice in the past week. It was the first time in a long time.

    Hasn't gotten very far in clearing up the condition I want it to but it feels like the right track, and I don't feel like I'm really on the program yet.

    ReplyDelete
  87. That's a good point about distilled water Mark.

    I can't even use it in my freshwater aquarium by itself, it'll kill the fish asap and the algae growth will go nuts. You have to re mineralize distilled with a special product first if you want to use it.

    Plus distilled water still has chlorine and flourine and crap in it. Any chemical with a boiling pt lower than water.

    The stuff about mechanically distilled water being just like fresh healthy rainwater is bull. Rain precipitates around particles of sea salt, minerals dust particiles blah blah blah. That's the whole point of a cloud. Machine distilled is really unnatural and acid, they use it in labratories because it's a dead substance. Probably a shock to the system, no wonder people are feeling like crap when they start.

    Maybe fresh spring water is a better idea? With or without the lemon depending on which point of the program you're in.

    ReplyDelete
  88. I found this water at the store today: Fiuggi, an italian water that has very low-mineral content, and is supposed to help detox your body and even dissolve kidney stones. Sounds like it may achieve the same goals as distilled, while being more natural. It's been used for centuries in Italy. Oh, and it's in a glass bottle so no risk of plastic leaching. It's pricey, though: $3/liter.

    I agree, I'm not trying distilled water anytime soon.

    ReplyDelete
  89. uhhh WHAT. People who have sex now have "issues" that bring down their numbers?

    oh yeah Matt...... send us to some folks who have nooo hidden agenda whatsoever...... thanks a bunch

    WTF happened to real research instead of parroting a holy authority??

    ReplyDelete
  90. @ William
    I don't recall if it was PHi or pHs. I'm not good with scientific terms. It was your past comment about the PH-something number being controlled by the brain. Ther are too many comments to go back through. :)

    I am familiar with your basic ingredients of life idea, which I'm guessing comes from the work of the young-earth theory Creationist named Henry Morris? Or perhaps Duane Gish?

    These are prominent ideas in the realm of modern Christian Apologetics, arguing against evolution and in favor of the use of science to prove the surety of the Bible and the creation story of Genesis.

    I don't understand all of the science you brought up, alas I'm not smart enough to process those type of things. I am interested in the end product though, how it leads RBTI to instruct sick patients.

    You said previously that Dr. Reams taught that RBTI and religion go hand in hand. And that "hate" is the cause of health problems.

    But you and I both know that the word "hate" is used very differently in a Biblical sense. It is not a psychological emotion of dislike or anger as in modern English translation. This is why we as God's people are called upon to "hate" our mothers and fathers in Luke 14.

    It is the Hebrew "sane", or the Aramaic "sanah" -- it means 'to separate', or 'reject', 'to love less'. In the Greek translation of the Bible, 200 years before Jesus was born, it was "miseo" -- this is a sense of separation, or exclusion. It means an act or position of non-election, which is why sinners and non-Judaic people are said to "hate" God. They are separate from him, and do not follow His rules, by choice or otherwise.

    This has to do with issues of ritual impurity at the time. For example. Those who ate or prepared the unclean foods were to be "hated" or avoided (miseo) since they were seen as unclean. And they could make anyone who came into contact with them unclean as well.

    This was also true of a woman during her cycle, a man bleeding from an injury, and various other things that may seem arbitrary but helped God's people differentiate themselves from other groups around them. As you know, there are complex rituals and isolation timeframes (often 6 or 7 days) to recover from unclean contact.

    Understood in this context (which I assume Dr. Reams did) the word "hate" highlights that God requires His people to separate themselves from the unclean out of a fear of ritual impurity. God "hates" unclean people or those who have come into contact with unclean people/practices because they tend to spread their ritual uncleanliness among His followers.

    That is what's meant by "hate": it's a separation from God's rules, being "hated" (rejected) by God, and "hating"(separating from) Him by not obeying divine law... not an emotional brain state that effects the body thus causing illness. I believe you know this understanding of the word as well?

    ReplyDelete
  91. All of you freaking out about distilled water, do your research. Your comments are total BS.

    ReplyDelete
  92. @SJ
    Dark underbelly is a poor choice of words, disrespectful to RBTI and it's teachers. There is no dark underbelly, only patterns to notice and language to translate in context, as with all bodies of knowledge. Especially where religion intersects. The Word in particular is complex, which is why numerology and things of this nature are so interesting to me to think about.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Some thoughts on distilled water:

    Though I think that distilled water alone is probably not good for the human body, in a context of getting minerals from other sources, it seems to be quite healing.

    Brian Clement from the Hippocrates Institute (though I don't agree with the raw vegan thing- no offense), he has been drinking distilled water since the 70's, and for his age, I'd say he looks pretty dang healthy. You might argue that it is because of the wheatgrass that he looks so good- and that is probably true, but I wonder if the no/low mineral content of the distillled water makes these wheatgrass minerals more available to his body.

    Also, I just got a freshwater tank from a friend. The nitrates are through the roof. I decided to add some distilled water because the water was also testing really high- like over 1000 on my conductivity meter. I was hoping to dilute some of these minerals and particles. So I think it may be with RBTI and distilled water. We may not get our minerals from the water, but the minerals in food and supplements could be more available to our system. Just thinking out loud.
    Deedle

    ReplyDelete
  94. Team Smith. Ummm ... OK? That was rude and uninformative. Thanks. Done plenty of research here.

    Freaking out? How about a simple stating the obvious and reporting what I've seen.

    Or by research do you mean reading internet articles by companies who sell water distillation machines. If so, you're right I haven't done enough research.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Hey Matt,
    I've been a reader for about a year and have really enjoyed all your cheeky posts, but this RBTI thing sounds a little off.

    First, Reams says that God revealed the mathematical formula for perfect health, but here's the thing...(and I'm assuming he meant the God of the Bible), from the moment of the first sin (ahem, Adam and Eve), everything on Earth began to head to decay.
    Christians know that nothing will be made perfect until He returns, so saying that God revealed a "perfect health equation" does not agree with Gods plan as he has revealed it in the Bible. (Again, I'm assuming that Reams was referring to God of the Bible).

    Secondly, whether you believe that we are created by God or evolved from ape...it just seems like a whole lot of hullabaloo to be testing this and that to get to perfect health. Why would God or Mother Nature want to make it so complicated for humans to reach optimum health?

    And lastly, if you think it's true that God revealed to Reams this miraculous formula, then aren't there bigger things to consider (like,um... eternity and God and stuff like that)instead of distilled water, corn oil and late night snacking?

    ReplyDelete
  96. Sad. That used to be a sweet place to stop and
    get some funny bites on nutrition.
    it has become a rather noisy , crowded and
    alas
    pointless.
    All these people..
    the daily life of whom seems to consist of watching everything that comes in&out.
    Food
    Poo..
    Pee
    Yeah , i do grasp the
    idea of finding out the "perfect health", but isn't
    it a bit "annoying" that someone posed a question on RBTI in this particular post concerning the cancer of a friend and
    (i haven't checked all of the answers yet) for the next 2 hours none,
    literally none took out of their way to answer,
    while most continued to give detailed and rather
    picturesque explanation of their gut activities..

    Some stare at their bellybuttons and it is already
    sad..

    Matt,
    your new style becomes you.. it makes me laugh also. You look quite a lot like a Parisian editor of cult art and fashion magazine called Purple.The guy is cult him self.
    Check Olivier Zahm..

    Lorelai, aka hawaiigirl,
    you are sweet and your writing makes me laugh,
    being mom my self.
    thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  97. Lydia

    "First, Reams says that God revealed the mathematical formula for perfect health, but here's the thing...(and I'm assuming he meant the God of the Bible), from the moment of the first sin (ahem, Adam and Eve), everything on Earth began to head to decay.
    Christians know that nothing will be made perfect until He returns, so saying that God revealed a "perfect health equation" does not agree with Gods plan as he has revealed it in the Bible. (Again, I'm assuming that Reams was referring to God of the Bible)."

    As far as evaluating Challen's work goes, what the bible says and where Reams got his inspiration don't matter. Results matter. If you want to argue theology with Reams you've probably missed that boat, unless we have a Ghostbusters event coming up.

    "Secondly, whether you believe that we are created by God or evolved from ape...it just seems like a whole lot of hullabaloo to be testing this and that to get to perfect health."

    This is a valid opinion, but you're being very inconsiderate of people who feel differently or enjoy investigating hullabaloo.

    "Why would God or Mother Nature want to make it so complicated for humans to reach optimum health?"

    Maybe God or Mother Nature don't do intelligent design.

    "And lastly, if you think it's true that God revealed to Reams this miraculous formula, then aren't there bigger things to consider (like,um... eternity and God and stuff like that)instead of distilled water, corn oil and late and night snacking?"

    I don't think Matt is qualified to answer questions about the motivations of God. Isn't He supposed to work in mysterious ways? Why do you think that you're qualified to judge what the big things to consider are?

    Just out of curiosity, what were you hoping to get out of your comment? Did you want Matt to show up and admit his foolishness in the face of your wisdom?

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  98. i

    "it a bit "annoying" that someone posed a question on RBTI in this particular post concerning the cancer of a friend and
    (i haven't checked all of the answers yet) for the next 2 hours none,
    literally none took out of their way to answer,
    while most continued to give detailed and rather
    picturesque explanation of their gut activities.."

    Because it would be very irresponsible to give unqualified advice to somebody dealing with such a very serious situation.

    However I do agree with you, it wouldn't have killed anyone to share a sympathy or two. But, in my experience Humans tend to be a bit narcissistic.


    Dear Steph, I have no idea what you're going through, but I'm very sorry about your friend's cancer.

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  99. Anon,
    Matt is all about investigating things to death, why not investigate this whole "revealed by God" bit?

    "Hullabaloo" was not used in an inconsiderate way. I meant it in a way of "an extraordinary amount of effort". Since I stated that I have been following Matt for about a year, clearly I'm one of those people that like to investigate as well.

    Intelligent design always refers to a creator, evolution does not allow for intelligent design. Evolution says that we are changing to better suite our environment...I just don't understand why humans that are evolving to perfection would need to test once, if not, several times a day to reach optimum health.

    As far as your last comment about Matt showing up and admit his foolishness in the face of my wisdom, well that was just harsh dude.

    Like I said before, Matt likes to investigate things to death, and I dig that. I was adding food for thought to his research and to the discussion.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Regards frequent peeing: when I was a teen I had a terrible case of frequent urination, constant thirst, and hypoglycemia. I luckily discovered bilberry which is the European blueberry and readily available at most drugstores and online. I had been ill for 7 years, and within days, my bladder pain was cut in half. Within 12 weeks it was gone. That pain was horrendous. Interesting side note, I had mentioned before but I think it bares (is that a naked idea?) repeating, I was able to treat my hypoglycemia episodes with a small dose of tapioca pudding (home made with milk, sugar, and some vanilla) every morning. Just a 1/4 to 1/2 c. serving was sufficient. I hadn't thought about that in a long time, I don't have to do it anymore. I don't have those low sugar issues anymore.

    That said, I'm still thirsty all the time. I don't know why that is. I only pee a couple of times a day.

    A couple years ago I had tried doing an Atkins style induction and that just tanked my metabolism and put two pounds on my body. My body temp went way down. I felt awful. So, I don't do that anymore. I had done it to try to treat the sugar issue but it didn't work. My coconut oil seems to have fixed the low temperature issue, so I'm really not willing to give that up. Corn oil always made me fat so I'm not doing that either. I'm not on the RBTI bandwagon. I did switch my meals around somewhat. I am eating my carbs in the AM and a bigger lunch and smaller dinner. I'm not seeing much weight loss.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Hey Steph,
    Anon was so right about it being rude that we ignored your plea for help.

    Check this doc out... no joke, this guy is curing cancer http://www.burzynskiclinic.com/

    ReplyDelete
  102. Lydia

    "Matt is all about investigating things to death, why not investigate this whole "revealed by God" bit?"

    Because he is investigating things that he finds interesting, not things that you find interesting.

    ""Hullabaloo" was not used in an inconsiderate way. I meant it in a way of "an extraordinary amount of effort". Since I stated that I have been following Matt for about a year, clearly I'm one of those people that like to investigate as well."

    You can be offensive without meaning to. Whatever you thought you were saying, hullabaloo has a connotation of silliness. You're implying that people who are seriously testing themselves in hope of getting better are in fact being silly.

    "evolution does not allow for intelligent design"

    Then who designed the process of evolution?

    "Evolution says that we are changing to better suite our environment"

    Per wikipedia:
    Evolution (or more specifically biological or organic evolution) is the change over time in one or more inherited traits found in populations of individuals.

    Evolution does not automatically imply adaptation to an environment.

    "I just don't understand why humans that are evolving to perfection would need to test once, if not, several times a day to reach optimum health."

    I'm tempted to point out that, based on your own arguments, a Human evolving towards perfection is by definition not perfect, and therefore would benefit from testing to figure out how to shore up their weaknesses.

    More importantly, if the person you're talking to doesn't believe Humans are evolving towards perfection, should they have to answer your question predicated on that idea?

    "As far as your last comment about Matt showing up and admit his foolishness in the face of my wisdom, well that was just harsh dude."

    I stand by my original question regarding what you hoped to get out of your comment.

    "Like I said before, Matt likes to investigate things to death, and I dig that. I was adding food for thought to his research and to the discussion."

    And I continued the discussion by pointing out what I perceived to be flaws in your reasoning.

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  103. CADreamin

    "That said, I'm still thirsty all the time. I don't know why that is. I only pee a couple of times a day."

    What type of water are you drinking?

    "I'm not seeing much weight loss."

    How long have you been doing your new routine?

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  104. @Mardecai (and SJ)
    We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon. I told part of what I am about. Yes, I do believe in God, not ashamed of that. But my personal believes stop me from forcing religion to anyone. Believers and non-believers, I try to respect everyone alike. But I must admit some make that hard for me, as some are close-minded and will question every good intention and judge everything that is beyond their horizon. I have found those tendencies more in believers as in non-believers.
    So as for religion, when asked I love to share, discuss and debate about it. But only when it is the right time and place. If a consultant has a really sick client, who is bothered greatly by the believer going on and on about God, I would seriously doubt if it is the time or place.
    Most here have seen me state for instance about the no-no foods, that I address the believers to go to Leviticus 11, and explain for the non-believers how it works. I am all for real religions that show respect, but do not let that get in the way of true science. There is a time and place for both. I believe this blog is the place for science. I build www.RBTI.info to be a place for science, and hope to close the religious part for now.
    @dcx commenting on the post concerning the cancer of a friend.
    You are right, and I am also guilty of that. Thank you for pointing it out.
    @Steph
    Like dcx, I also have no idea what you are going through, every case is totally different, every individual experiences different emotions etc. But I would like to share the following:
    My motivation on RBTI has been triggered not as something cool, but because something needed to be done about my condition (Crohn’s), and the MD and bunch of medication seemed not up to the job my HB dropped to 3.4 (European standards) where if it was below 5.5 I should have taken a blood transfusion. I refused and finally with limited understanding of RBTI, I was complains free and drug free in two months.
    In about another month, a close friend was diagnosed with an early stage cancer. I decided to give it a go, explained what RBTI was, and was really convinced it would have gotten the cancer out of her (please accept my convention as a fact, but do question if she would have been fine). The story was clear and the answer was too: “If you have an electrical problem you don’t call in the plumber”. She died two years later. In her last painful days she did mention it one time, but took her words back.
    Everybody believes. Some believe the MD’s work for money, others believe they work for you. Some believe we should force our ways on others, some don’t. Steph, the cancer story is about two persons: you and your friend. How will you feel if you haven’t tried? How will you feel if you have tried, but your friend still dies? Ask yourself how you feel, what you can live with. Even though I believe I did make the right decision, it still hurts.

    ReplyDelete
  105. William

    "There is a time and place for both."

    You are sounding like the Dalai Lama. =)

    "@dcx commenting on the post concerning the cancer of a friend."

    Technically i (what a tough user name to quote) pointed it out, so credit where credit is due. I am totally guilty of severe narcissism.

    "it still hurts"

    Life can be a mega mega biatch. =(

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  106. dcx:

    Um, honey? This could be a Ghostbusters event.

    Challen says the Spirit of Carey Reams and/or God talks to him directly. Right on the front page of his website. Or did you miss that?

    Matt mentioned he says it in person all the time too. Or did you miss that also?

    And Reams got the numbers after days of praying and fasting.

    In my opinion the theology really is as relevant as the other stuff.


    Amanda

    ReplyDelete
  107. @ Mordecai
    I thought 'dark underbelly' was a great choice of words, because I was using irony to make a joke. I also thought you might not find it funny, which is why I bookended my comment with an apology and a disclaimer that I'm not trying to offend anyone. However, I don't think that my choice of words is disrespectful to RBTI or its teachers. My comment ultimately expressed appreciation to both you and William for your candor. Jacqueline has been a great help on this blog and to me personally via email, and I have thanked her personally for that. But humour/irony is in the eye of the beholder and open to interpretation. I am sorry if you felt disrespected.

    Would you be open to sharing your take on numerology and how it relates to RBTI, The Word, etc? I would love to hear your opinions/thoughts.

    @ William
    Again, thank you for your candor. I understand if you want to close the religious part.

    I am sorry to hear about your friend's death. I think when a person dies, everyone questions what they could have/should have done differently. That level of uncertainty is an unfortunate aspect of life and death. Ask any parent who has lost a child….there is a lot of 'what could I have done differently'. A very tough boat to row.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Dcx

    I think this road may lead us to get off subject so I just wanted to say one thing on...

    "Then who designed the process of evolution?"

    Who indeed, Dcx.

    Who indeed.

    Peace out.

    ReplyDelete
  109. icbs

    Personally I don't care whether intelligent design or evolution is correct. I think you've also misunderstood my position on RBTI. I've never heard of it before Matt brought it up, never consulted with any practitioner including Challen, and have yet to drink any lemonade and/or pee.

    (somebody make a photoshop quick: I don't always drink my own pee, but when I do, I RBTI)

    Now I understand you have an anti-RBTI agenda to promote, so there isn't much I can do to stop you from interpreting what I say however you want. But if you care, you're pretty far off from understanding my position.

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  110. Amanda

    "Challen says the Spirit of Carey Reams and/or God talks to him directly. Right on the front page of his website. Or did you miss that?

    Matt mentioned he says it in person all the time too. Or did you miss that also?"

    I did miss these actually. So much for reading comprehension, my bad. =\

    On the other hand I quite enjoy Ghostbusters, so game on. =)

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  111. Lydia

    "Who indeed, Dcx."

    This reminds me of

    Fry: "What really killed the dinosaurs?"

    The big brain: "I DID"

    =)

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  112. Sigh. Latest posts from Matt's public FB account:

    "Anyone want 4 giant boxes full of health and nutrition books? Got no room for them. I will mail them to whoever wants 'em for say, $200. Let me know asap. Gotta mail them on monday...

    Collection includes nutrition and physical degeneration, broda barnes 3 books, schwarzbein collection, yudkin, and well over 100 others. It's at least $2000 of books."



    ...Yup. Sounds like someone's found his One True Answer.

    Word to all health researchers - the way to stay open minded is to donate all your wide ranging information sources to Goodwill.

    ReplyDelete
  113. @Anonymous September 13, 2011 3:38:00 PM MDT

    Matt has always gone whole hog into every new idea for awhile.

    At first the milk diet made his teeth super strong and his allergies better, then it made him phlegm-filled and sick.

    Then sugar made him strong like a bull even though Scott Abel's workouts were too hard for normal people, and made his pet allergies better. Then he apparently got a huge rash and got sick.

    I'm pretty sure he's been leaning out numerous times from various experiments, except not overall.

    Still, this is why his experiences are so valuable. You can't half-ass a real attempt to try something new. You also can't expect somebody to not change. There is a difference between staying open minded and clinging to an ineffective theory just because you want it to be true.

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  114. Where in dogs name is the short ribs video? Looked everywhere. Was earlier this year, near the halfasses video .... Anyone?

    ReplyDelete
  115. oh dcx, you so funny, taking my jab all literal :D

    You thought I was just referring to you? What was that about narcissism you mentioned?

    Very cute disclaimer of non Rbti allegiance you got there..... but golly you sure seem to know enough about it to give Lorelee advice just a few lines up. What coINcidence ;D

    Not anti Rbti, I'm anti interference from Bronze age good/bad heaven/hell holy/heathen mythology in places it doesn't belong - modern human nutrition for one


    If Rbti isn't about religion, then have at. But uh so far it's reeeeeeally not looking good........and Matt may not be able to spot it, he's so deep in


    dcx says: "Then who designed the process of evolution?"

    That question, Dcx? Only ever asked in that type of convo by a creationist/IDer or a [Just trying to make you think!!!] troll :DDD

    Actions speak bigtime louder than whatever position you wanna type about

    don't worry, i c whut u did thurr ;D

    ReplyDelete
  116. Good grief, Matt give us something to talk about, PLEASE?

    How about:

    *Caveats of RBTI
    *What you haven't seen helped by RBTI
    *Long-term value of RBTI
    *Should we really feed our under 12's soy? And why 12? What's the difference between 11 and 364 days and 11 and 365 days?
    *Whether you will continue with RBTI protocol, or just some facets

    Just in case you needed some ideas. I'm sure you have plenty. But I'm waiting something interesting to read!

    ReplyDelete
  117. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  118. On the cancer/rbti question; NO!!! Here's my reasoning. Corn oil can break down into malondialdehyde, which is a mutagen and carcinogen; which are strongly associated with cancer. RBTI recommends corn oil, therefore, RBTI recommendations can cause cancer (Reams himself died of cancer). I am not a medical professional, or in any position to give advice, this is just my logic on the issue.

    Matt, thanks! I knew lactose and polysaccharides would be allowed in the evening.. so is any sugar that tastes sweet not allowed after 2? Is it just fructose?

    eg. glucose/galactose good; glucose/glucose bad (malt); glucose/glucose/glucose/etc. good; glucose/fructose bad?

    Mordecai, do you have a blog? Your comments are fascinating!!!

    Lydia, I have noticed that if a person were a "Christian" this RBTI stuff would be extremely blasphemous (depending on their sect, of course).

    -Andrew

    ReplyDelete
  119. Lorelei, I can't see any reason to feed children soy- or to restrict them from eating meat. I think Reams was just trying to one up the Jews by making the age of adulthood 12, instead of 13... lol! :)

    ReplyDelete
  120. More food for thought: Occam's Razor actually proves that rbti is a hoax, and that there is a God.

    ReplyDelete
  121. "What's the difference between 11 and 364 days and 11 and 365 days?"

    Well you have to draw the line somewhere. What's the difference between 20 years and 364 days and 20 years and 265 days that's suddenly gives you the responsibility necessary to drink alcohol (or 15 years and 365 days if you're German^^).

    12 years is most likely just a good estimate based on Ream's/Challen's/some other dude's observations. There most likely are children who, according to that theory, would be able to eat meat safely earlier and also some who are not still not ready when they turn 12. But you have to give people some kind of guideline.

    ReplyDelete
  122. icbs

    Like I said, you're just going to say whatever you want.

    Strong work.

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  123. AndrewH

    "More food for thought: Occam's Razor actually proves that rbti is a hoax, and that there is a God."

    Occam's Razor doesn't prove anything. It's a principle to guide thought.

    Now if YOU want to prove rbti is a hoax and there is a God, and in doing so invoke Occam's razor for one of the steps, please do so.

    Don't forget to finish with QED so it looks all formal like too. =)

    dcx

    ReplyDelete
  124. @ Simon
    My 'sugars' come out at between 5 and 7, depending on the time of the day.

    Do you also know the number of the conductivity? In RBTI we look at the ratio between those two. If I know your conductivity number maybe I can say something about both these numbers.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Mad - you take me toooo seriously. I know there has to be a line somewhere :). I'm just hoping for some insightful explanation about this whole no meat under 12 thing. I like your new pic BTW. You're the potato king to my potato queen - you giving up taters?

    Andrew - I would consider giving my children soy foods child abuse. Matt once told me to give my kids lots of meat because they do really well with it. I just want to know his new opinion. I feel unwilling to jump in on this whole RBTI diet because it's NOT JUST ME I'm responsible for.

    Some people are willing to jump right in to new ideas and learn as they go. Others need to gather as much info as possible before they try something. Can you guess which type I am?

    But I'm not feeling like there's enough real info from either a) people who have done this a really long time (years would be nice - so far there's about 4 people in that category, not enough to sway me) or b) researchers whose opinion I respect (read: Matt). I can read what all the Challen ditto heads have to say, but it is NOT real info to me to just repeat what he says - what he says doesn't make any sense to me. I'm guessing Matt has seen amazing enough results to convince him, but I'm not seeing anything way out here by my lonesome in HI.

    ReplyDelete
  126. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  127. dcx, yea, that was supposed to be an Occam's Razor joke.. I forgot the lol or smiley face..

    Lorelei, awesome; I agree wholeheartedly! Sounds like you have a great approach to parenting too!

    I know! I want to see the SBTI already... or 180BTI.. not sure what would sound better... I'm pretty confident it will not include daily pufa's or soy protien for younguns.

    ReplyDelete
  128. On an unrelated note, if Matt were to try out Peat's LSD advice, he could probably add a prophetic vision section to his rbti repertoire! lol- just kidding, I couldn't resist.. my bad.

    ReplyDelete
  129. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  130. "You're the potato king to my potato queen - you giving up taters?"

    What kinda question is that? Of course not!
    Well actually, we'll see. Right now I live close to a region that is known for its soil fit for growing potatoes. So most of the taters I consume are of the higher quality - and probably higher mineral - variety anyways. The baked potatoe I ate in the States a few weeks ago, tasted ultra bland compared to what I'm used to. So I don't really bother about the RBTI recommendations right now.

    However, I've been striving for a bit more variety recently, so I've been upping my grain consumption, which naturally lead to potatoes playing a slightly smaller role in my diet.
    Also I will move to southern Germany next week (right now, I live in the north) and I guess the potatoes there will be more expensive and also of a lower quality, so we'll see how much taters I'm gonna eat down there.

    But completly abandoning potatoes? I don't think that's gonna happen. Especially not, when they are as awesome as this one:
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/dsci0002bz.jpg/

    ReplyDelete
  131. Hi Jacqueline.

    At the moment I don't have a conductivity meter, but might purchase one soon (plus a pH meter) from eBay if I think I can spare the money.

    Thank you for your reply though!

    ReplyDelete
  132. @William

    Wonderful quote regarding sky/horizons, so very true.

    I am of course familiar with the phrase. It was said by Konrad Adenauer, the former Nazi accomodationist who later went on to found the Christian Democratic Union political movement. He was a man who worked tirelessly towards reparations and to help regather the Jewish people in Israel, as was written must happen before the return of Christ.

    I noticed some North Germanic syntax in yours and Jacqueline's writing, are you of German or Dutch? It is a lovely part of the world, I spent some time there in my youth. :)

    Not forcing religion seems to me a good thing, I can see you do not wish to and I have much respect for such feeling.

    You did sidestep my questions. Perhaps I can be more clear.

    Sadly I do not understand the full details of RBTI or the body workings behind it. It sounds like it's quite complex.

    But from what you have said, the PHS and health are affected by actions and thoughts deemed Biblically immoral *regardless* of foods or other things taken.

    I am thinking now in terms of a very sick patient, perhaps one with cancer.

    If all RBTI rules were followed closely by this person, supplements taken and so on, perfect adherence all down the line, perhaps even reaching perfect numbers, and there was no improvement or a worsening --- according to RBTI, this would point to a different "issue", as you were saying? An issue of sexual expression or Biblically immoral types of thoughts?

    In other words... no amount of action to improve health will succeed if a person is perpetrating sin (physically or mentally) in the eyes of our God?

    I am curious about how a RBTI teacher goes about counseling such a patient.

    I assume this is the "Common Sense" part mentioned as the most important part in the numbers equation?

    Common sense is of course a good thing for all people. In a modern English understanding, it would probably bring to mind things like get enough sleep, drink enough water, avoid stress and smoking, and so on to most people.

    Of course, anyone with more than a passing knowledge of the Bible would be aware that "common" is also the Greek word "koine". Koine is the common Greek dialect used to translate the Bible from its original Hebrew.

    It is the language of the Septuagint, otherwise known as the Greek translation of the Old Testament which was adopted by Christians. Koine is also the language that the New Testament was written in, de novo.

    As a Seventh Day Adventist, Dr. Reams would have been fully aware of this use of the word "Common" or "Koine", as would most serious readers of the Bible or anyone in posession of a Strong's Concordance.

    It's very much a Biblical reference.


    Quote "Persons with 'issues' will not reach perfect numbers. Their health will plateau at a certain point and will not get better. I would say that this plateau is the perfect health given the (mental) issues."

    I am very interested in this idea of plateau. So according to RBTI, a person will only be able to surpass this plateau and have actual perfect health if they are aligning their thoughts and actions with our Christian morals?

    That is --- there are degrees of perfect health, and only certain people are deserving of the highest one?

    Quote "Homosexuality is an effect, not a cause, but the effect can be the cause of something else."

    I am also very curious about this statement. It is a direct contradiction of itself. It would probably be a good thing to do to expand on it, since it seems there are not just heterosexuals interested in this method for achieving excellent health.

    I think you are very humble to say your knowledge of RBTI is limited. Your input here seems to have ranged far and wide and very informative... I hope you would give your understanding a little more credit than that. Your knowledge is a gift.

    ReplyDelete
  133. @SJ

    Your bookend did not go unnoticed. No worries, I have a (what is said to be by friends, at least) passable sense of humor and an appreciation for irony.

    I was pointing out that your choice of words would likely be read poorly by those teaching RBTI and they might feel disrespected. I myself do not, but I am aware of those who may.

    There also seems to be an unfortunate element of religious intolerance, not from you but some of the other commenters. Those are not conducive to open dialogue on these things.

    I'm glad you appreciate the dialogue, I find the subject enthralling myself. The language, numbers and historicity of these texts are not nearly as powerful as the truth they communicate. But I find they provide a richer understanding and context in all things.

    Of course I am happy to share my insight on the numerology aspect. I do not have access to any of Dr. Ream's books, but if anyone who does have access to his work would like to quote any of the numbers he generated here I would be happy to take a look.

    If long excerpts aren't preferrable on these boards, you may also send to my email address at: mdalton at gmx dot com

    I have received some interesting numbers so far, they are quite beautiful.

    ReplyDelete
  134. @ Mordecai,

    I am leaving soon for a long weekend away from my computer. Here is a quick link to one of Dr. Reams' books:

    http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pcaffell/The_curse_causeless.htm

    I can't verify if the website is legit, but you can download one of his books from there.

    I don't have any numbers, but I think the perfect equation is listed somewhere on Matt's blog. I would find it but I am running out the door. I'm looking forward to your further comments!

    ReplyDelete