In the months leading up to my pilgrimage to Wheeling, West Virginia (where I saw a grown man wearing a hospital gown as a shirt on Saturday - it was tucked into his pants but his fat, hairy, bare back was showing... the thing was faded and frayed as well, as if he had been wearing it as a shirt for years), I was eating a progressively vegetarian diet. I noticed the more meat I displaced out of my diet, the better I felt in many categories - such as lower levels of inflammation, less tooth pain, no body odor, gums stopped bleeding, better breathing...
But I knew it was a dead end and I also knew things weren't right. I broke out with two major rashes on my backside in a period of only 5 weeks for example. My toes started getting icy cold in the middle of the day. The ominous signs that I'm all too familiar with the significance of, were creeping in.
Deep inside it was obvious to me that my "meat intolerance" was not because meat is unhealthy or inherently inflammatory. It was obvious that I just wasn't, and haven't been digesting and metabolizing it correctly - the same logic I used when I started having problems with "carbohydrates" and went on to fix that (and help guide many others to fixing their "carbohydrate intolerances").
Anyway, that's exactly how meat is looked at in RBTI. To be able to digest meat properly, you have to have strong enough digestive juices, liver bile, and overall "reserve energy." One of the beliefs that is nearest and dearest to RBTI is that young children lack such digestive strength - and that children don't reach their full digestive power until around age 12. Before then, meat is constipating, and causes tons of problems with congestion, sinus infection, asthma, ear infections - as constipation and congestion more or less go hand in hand. Eggs and dairy are mainstays of child RBTI diets. Meats? Not so much.
Here's Challen Waychoff discussing vegetarian diets, meat-free diets for kids under the age of 12, and sleep...
As an update on Pippa and I's next road trip... We will be in Detroit on Thursday, Chicago on Friday, and Minneapolis over the weekend. If you live in one of these cities or close to it, there is still a chance you can have her play with your urine. Contact her at pipparoni@yahoo.com right away to schedule.
Subscribing. :o)
ReplyDeleteI have to say, that since switching to having a large lunch and small dinner, I have been sleeping like a log. There is truth in what Mr Waychoff says. :)
ReplyDeleteDitto on the sleeping, the last four nights I have had super good sleep and NO PEEING at 3am. And for an old menopausal hag like me, that is Nirvana. I do crave snacks but I try to just eat stuff like seaweed or raw cheese in the evenings.
ReplyDeleteLOVE THIS SHIT
deb
I'm actually sleeping less deeply since switching to small dinners, but not in a bad way. I used to be dead to the world - sleeping through earthquakes and hurricanes. Now I'm more normal, I guess.
ReplyDeleteNot being able to digest certain foods could be from a congested liver. You should try a liver flush, I did my first one a few weeks ago and got out 2 dozen bright green putrid smelling stones and I will continue them until no more come out. One improvement was no more constipation and better digestion just from the first flush and I don't practice any of the RBTI rules.
ReplyDeleteJanelle, how do you do a liver flush? Just curious.
ReplyDelete@Matt, I saw Wolfstiked's comment on the last post links to some less expensive testing supplies. Is this ok? I'd love to do some tests to figure out my numbers (I'm so curious) but $400-$600 is absolutely out of the question for me at the moment. $100 I could swing. Is there anything special about Challen's testing supplies?
I have always suffered insomnia and would LOVE to fix that. Anxiety, too, which goes hand in hand with my insomnia.
ReplyDeleteI just have to comment on the kids should not eat meat till 12 years rule. Maybe Reams & Challen have a reasonable justification for this based on kids' testing numbers, but there are a lot of reasons why kids might have the health problems he mentions other than eating meat. And many kids who eat meat don't have them, including mine. And I know this group isn't too concerned with evidence from diets of traditional cultures at this point, but, of course, kids in traditional cultures ate/eat meat and are very healthy. Now maybe one could argue that generations of people eating the SAD have left us with such poor digestive systems that our kids can't eat meat anymore, and that's certainly possible. But I need to see for myself that the RBTI protocol is beneficial before I make that change to my kids' diet, since they are healthy.
ReplyDeleteAnd lastly, I was significantly alarmed to read that Challen considers soy milk with some corn syrup added to be a good infant formula as he is reported to have said here:http://tranlifelab.com/challen-waychoff-says/ Seriously? If you gave that to an infant they would certainly end up with all the health problems he attributes to meat, if they even survived infancy. So alarming. There are good reasons why milk alternatives have the phrase "not to be used as infant formula" printed on the package.
Now I know that Challen has said many other wacky and inaccurate things, as reported by Matt, and Matt feels it is reasonable to disregard them because of the results Challen gets. That's why I am trying this whole RBTI thing. But really, the soy-milk-as-infant -formula almost did me in! OK, just had to vent.
The instructions of the flush are in the book "The amazing liver and gallbladder flush" by Andreas Moritz. You can read some chapters on the google preview here: http://books.google.com/books?id=zZtm3H6KPzYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=amazing+liver+and+gallbladder+flush&hl=en&ei=N0RcTv-pBM3qgQfsncyNAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
ReplyDeleteJust make sure to follow the protocol precisely, there are many different ones out there, but Andreas' is proven effective, as I have seen from doing it myself as well.
Thanks, Janelle. I'll check it out.
ReplyDelete@ Pamela
ReplyDeleteOne thing to consider is that the vast majority of those healthy traditional people ate way less meat than people in developed countries do today. Add to that higher quality food, outdoor lifestyle, a hardy metabolism / digestion not ruined by "civilized" lifestyle / eating habits. Our situation is quite different. Not saying your argument is invalid though.
Also from last article post....
ReplyDeleteI just bought a refractometer, ph strips, and an aquarium urea testing kit on Amazon for about $75 I didn't buy the conductivity meter yet, but the ones I was looking at would bring the grand total to $100.
I was hoping that SpongePip Peepee Pants and Mattrick would give some feedback regarding buying cheaper testing devices. Does it matter?
Deedle
I'm curious on thoughts while pregnant. I would love to eat a big lunch and smaller dinner but I find I need to eat ever few hours so's not to feel nauseous. Which really bums me out. :(
ReplyDeletei am with you, Pamela P! i have remained pretty open minded until i read Tran's blog today and watched this video. i have followed a WAPF style diet w/ all 3 of my kids and they are super healthy.
ReplyDeleteHmmm. My daughter, since she was little, could eat several lbs of meat a day w/out the problems mentioned in the video. She adores meat. One of these days we're going to enter her in the 72oz steak contest. She'll kick butt.
ReplyDeleteBut I could see that you might want to limit muscle meat, which is not at all out of line with WAPF or Peat or many others. Waychoff doesn't say no animal protein, he says no meat, which means chicken, steak, etc.
My plan is to follow his ideas within a real food framework. Soy is so not on my list...
After 10 days of giant lunch and salad dinner, nothing sweet after two, I can't say that I'm sleeping any better at all. Of course, I still feel hungry all night long. Haven't lost weight either. Only positive is still the less cracked heels (strange...).
I would like to know if the Brix meter in the official kit is the kind that can test produce as well (some can't).
And it would be nice to get updates from official newbie RBTIers!
Hawaiigirl!
ReplyDeleteIf you have a facebook account, or any desire at all to get one, that is the place to go for newbie updates. The RBTI fb group is CRAZY active, and full of questions, answers, problems and solutions. Seriously active place that has a few "experts" too. It has been a majorly mind blowing experience for me :) I highly recommend it.
I waste enough time on the 'puter with all my intangible 180 friends... I avoid that newfangled facebook at all costs! I joined the yahoo group though, at least.
ReplyDelete"Iceberg lettuce has opium in it."
ReplyDeleteSo I heard this, I knew it couldn't be right, (probably not alone there) and I looked into it. Here's what I found:
Iceberg lettuce does not have opium in it, obviously. Nor does any other kind. All lettuce species have a juice that people call "lettuce opium" which isn't chemically like opium at all, although it kinda sorta looks like it and kinda sorta maybe has opium-like effects on a small scale, due to traces of sedatives in the plant. Some people have tried to sell the stuff canned - which when tested contains no sedative - but maybe it has to be fresh. Either way, there's no reason to think that iceberg specifically is more effective than other varieties.
Well I agree with Pamela P. Stuff like this really bothers me with RBTI...
ReplyDeleteOf course Challen and Reams don't seem to know the work on WAP and others. Otherwise they could see the serious caveat in such bold statement in regard to African tribes who feed their infant chewed liver as their first food - and they thrive on it!
To me saying "Reams found it" is not a justification of any sort. Did he test thousand of kids before and after 12 and saw that digestive juices change at 12? Did he always saw those health problems in kids eating meat and not in vegetarian kids? There is such opacity on his findings that there is no way to know. They recommend dairy but do not distinguish between raw and pasteurized dairy while many of these health problems could be attributed to pasteurized milk alone!
We just have to believe in the Gospel. And by the way someone who hears voices and get messages from God is technically classified nowadays as a schyzophrenic, just saying...
So I wouldn't follow Challen or Reams ideas to raise kids for sure. On adults their findings might be potent.
"vegan diet butt rash" tag: ha ha ha!!!! It looks like david koresh is suffering from this unfortunate affliction.
ReplyDeleteHahaha, I did that liver flush back in 2005.
ReplyDeleteEpsom salts taste like SHIT!! seriously, that was the hardest thing, swallow that down afternoon, evening and in the morning (but I skipped it in the morning.. I really tried but I just couldn't. Nasty, NASTY stuffs!)
Oh, and the oil doesn't really taste divine either, especially not a whole cup of oil/juice blend.
But the result was cool-ish.
I did get some green thingies out, about the size of rice. Not much, but still cool to see.
(I did it as an experiment, not for health resons...although I wonder if anything would improve if doing it today..)
If anyone does a liver flush/cleanse, I highly recomend doing it on the weekend because you will be camping outside your loo the whole day after!
We're talking about "non-stop" diarrhoea lol lol lol
-Beth
So Matt, as I understood from a previous thread, should dinner be eaten pretty close to bedtime?
ReplyDeleteI'm with Hawaii-girl as far as Facebook - I waste too much time as it is...so I am hoping I can get info off of this...
ReplyDeleteAlso, I still can't/won't let go of butter, raw milk, and other WAPF ideas. I feel that Challen has done a lot for this protocol- but as stated above, he is not familiar with guys like Weston A Price. It would be nice to expand the protocol using real, homemade food. Couldn't I just make my own chicken pot pie? On the other hand, I still feel like crap (though better with the large meal at noon) and I want results.
Deedle
Regarding liver flushes, from what I understand, the "stones" they produce are just soap stones created by the oil and citric acid/salts you consume as part of the cleanse protocol and aren't really getting cleaned out of your liver:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/flushes.html
Talk about snake oil!
I know Challen recommends coffee enemas for some to flush the liver... maybe more effective?
That is absolutely false about the stones being soap stones! our bodies are not soap making factories! lol you have to do the flush yourself to see, plus when there are no more stones to flush out no matter how many times you do it again you WILL NOT GET STONES. I hate it when people call them soap stones, stop spreading lies.
ReplyDeleteHawaiigirl/Deedle...
ReplyDeleteI completely understand about not joining facebook. I was a hold out for a long, long time. It is a fascinating conversation over there, though. Questions and answers come fast and furiously. There is none of the waiting for days to see how people justify certain aspects of this like it has been in the comments section here.
Anyway, the thing that I am noticing about the weird food advice is that "it is all in the numbers." Seriously. That is the answer. Always. I am quite certain that the folks who have had good results with RBTI would dress their salads with motor oil if it caused their numbers to move towards perfect.
I am still leaning towards whole foods, but willing to experiment with some things. Howevr, I will not drink milk from the store. It is a sticking point with me. If I can't find a way to skim my own well enough to not throw off my numbers, then milk is out.
Not so with the hardliners. Store milk is cheap and easy. It doesn't mess up your numbers, and that is good enough. Same with organic vs. conventional produce.
I don't know. How do I justify giving money to people who abuse animals or put small farmers out of business just to see my numbers move towards perfect?
OTOH, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.
Liver cleanses-
ReplyDeleteThings like this are considered unnecessary on RBTI. Reversing body chemistry is supposedly enough to dissolve things like kidney stones, and presumably other types of deposits as well. But there are elements of liver cleansing, bowel cleansing, etc. worked into the program.
Weston A. Price-
He and others (like T.L. Cleave) saw that when refined foods displaced whole foods, degeneration ensued. Reams was probably right in concluding that health problems stem from a reduced mineral supply. This would actually make sense in light of the observations of these other people.
Challen's kids are a testament to the effectiveness of the RBTI kid diet. They are amazing specimens of regeneration - all with straight teeth, no braces, no cavities, 3 of them are a half foot taller than their parents, and none were ever sick with a cough, dental infection, cold, flu, ear infection, etc. throughout their entire childhoods. Which parents following WAPF guidelines are getting these results? I've heard of maybe a few, but these were the exception not the rule.
I find it interesting that Price was obsessed with saliva pH. He was on the right track, and knew that this was the first step in tooth decay - and that diet had an impact on it. Reams perfected how to manipulate such things.
Reams also said that someone with a strong mineral supply could eat whatever they wanted without ill effect. His system was for healing sick people, not keeping really healthy people well. And the system he created causes a lot of people to lose interest because of the gap in logic. That's too bad. Butter is not an ideal food for a sick person, nor is whole milk.
At least that's what I'm tending to believe...
ReplyDeleteSoy and corn syrup-
Haven't heard Challen say that one yet. He did tell me that skim milk with added sweetener was a perfectly acceptable breast milk substitute. I had to cringe a little. It seems a little fat thrown in there would be superior, but this health/diet game is always full of surprises and contradictions to what is most logical.
Amy-
Don't really know much about where and how to get cheaper testing supplies. It's possible to make huge improvements without knowing your specific chemistry though. You can deduce certain things by just observing what time of day you urinate the most, and adjust diet and drinking from there. I've been amazed at how simple some of this stuff is. Just buying a refractometer and following the right steps to flatten your sugar levels throughout the day and night (less violent fluctuations) is enough to fix your sleep and anxiety problems, and fix them most likely within a week.
For example Amy, if you have anxiety and insomnia at night, don't drink any water after 3:30 pm. Skim milk with dinner is okay. Do not eat any meat or sweets after 2pm.
ReplyDeleteDo that and your conditions will improve in a week or two. Take it a few steps further and really get to know your daily fluctuations with a refractometer and you can improve even more - maybe eliminating those problems altogether.
Then you just fine-tune it.
I would need more details to really direct you, but the basics will probably be enough to reap some rewards right away.
Hawaii Girl-
When I first started the meal schedule I was starving hungry at night, and super wired without my food sedative. I literally stayed awake until 2am 4-5 times in the first week alone. By the 2nd week I got my first one or two good night's sleep.
I sleep great now. With improvements in breathing - no more morning crusty boogers or clogged nostrils.
I am no longer hungry and have trouble eating anything at dinner time at all. I have lost 1-2 inches off my waist in the less than 6 weeks I've been doing this. 3 of these weeks were spent on the road not following the program very well.
Give it a fair trial. Give your body time to adjust. Then maybe you'll see why I'm putting my reputation on the line to highlight the work of someone who foolishly eats margarine, Krispy Kreme doughnuts, and Stripple bacon while believing that a vegan is someone who eats only raw foods.
This "technology" is remarkable. Considering what can be achieved eating junk food, one can only imagine what could be achieved with higher quality stuff. My personal belief is that it only can get better from here.
So min-col sounds like it is right in line with WAP. soil fertility in a pill...
ReplyDeleteWhat is the best source, where to buy online, ship to Canada?
Thanks, Matt. I'll start with the refractometer and maybe PH strips, too, because I'm curious if I'm acid or alkaline, and see how I go from there. I don't even know when I get most anxiety (it can be any time really), but I definitely get most of my light-headedness and and feeling out of it (which can fuel my anxiety because I can't focus properly) around lunchtime, which I thought was low-blood-sugar but testing might help me know for sure. I feel my best 1st thing in the morning and in the evenings from maybe 5/6pm on, and I can't tolerate coffee at any time of day much at all without feeling totally wired and spaced-out, if that tells you anything.
ReplyDelete"and none were ever sick with a cough, dental infection, cold, flu, ear infection, etc. throughout their entire childhoods."
ReplyDeleteSays Daddy...
every big teacher sells the RBTI supplements
ReplyDeletefwiw, when we first started talking about RBTI, I did the Coca pulse test (that is suppost to be for figuring out food allergies) on whole, raw, 100% grass fed milk. My pulse went way too fast. But I repeatedly test skim milk and it stayed even. So,. I also got a real high pulse with blackberries. That one surprised me, but it was before I found out that those seeded berries were a no food.
ReplyDeleteKitchen Recovery,
ReplyDeleteCan you explain your statement, "seeded berries [are] a no food"? Does this mean even strawberries, raspberries, etc. screw with everyone's numbers? I hadn't heard of these (or blackberries) being listed among the "no" foods. Thanks.
From what I've heard, you can only eat strawberries, blackberries, and raspberries if the seeds are removed.
ReplyDeleteFacebook IS tempting, but I don't want creepy people fron the past finding me.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to hear that Matt was hungry and couldn't sleep in the beginning. This has been my experience. I have had to totally fill up on bread to make it through the night. It sounds like that can adjust.
I think the mineral idea is what is keeping me here- just like WAPF has done all of these years. But, you do make a good point, Matt. I have felt like total crap since implementing their guidelines. My kids are pretty healthy, though.
Hey -- where are you staying in chicago?
ReplyDeleteNeed any tips on where to go for fun?
@ Mitzi and the non-facebookers,
ReplyDeleteI'm not on facebook either. Thanks, Mitzi, for reporting a bit about what is happening over there. If I haven't switched over to fb for my friends and family, I ain't going to do it now for RBTI! However, I do wish I could read what is being said :)
Thanks to the others for reporting their experiences so far, too. It's fascinating. Please keep them coming, despite the fb and yahoo pages :)
You are quite welcome, SJ. As I said, I really do understand completely about not wanting to be on fb. I felt like such a sellout when my friends finally talked me into doing it :) I certainly wouldn't join for RBTI.
ReplyDeleteIt is so interesting to see what is happening with people and their dietary dogma over there. Some resist so hard, and others are just thrilled with the relative freedom. I am a mix of the two.
Then there is my husband the medical laboratory technician. He doesn't buy it at all. He is more than willing to be supportive (as he always is with any crazy thing I decide to try), but he keeps explaining to me that whatever the reason is behind RBTI getting good results, it has little or nothing to do with the brix reading of the food they are eating.
For instance, he challenges the idea that a higher brix automatically means a higher mineral content. He pointed out that food is now being engineered to be sweeter all the time. Because the refractometer measures nothing more than the disolved solids, he asserts that RBTI would interpret that produce to have a higher brix when it merely has a higher sugar content that may or may not have any connection to its mineral content.
I keep getting these lectures about how the brix is not measuring what the RBTI folks say it is measuring. Sigh. Makes me wish he had direct access to the people who argue for it because I'm exhausted trying to argue their side when I don't know what I'm talking about! lol Of course, he says they don't know what they are talking about either! ha ha ha
To be clear...he isn't arguing with their results. He is willing to concede that folks are feeling better/healing; he just doesn't buy a word of the "science" they are following. I wish I had the money to buy a kit and get into this full on. It would be interesting to see what he would do with that, and if he could figure out what's going on while I experiment on myself :)
@Jannis " Says Daddy" YES! Thank you! I am not calling Challens a fraud - and feel convinced that he has results - but his memory might be very selective to back up his beliefs; this is how the human mind works.
ReplyDeleteReading Matt's answers I think the theory I formulate myself to reconcile RBTI and WAP is that RBTI is indeed probably a wonderful tool for ill people - to heal fast; however it might not be the optimum diet for healthy people.
Furthermore I would think it is adapted to people who are already weak and have been raised on convenient/depleted food; then their system indeed might need such adjustement.
That would explain the apparent contradictions on pork, whole milk etc. between traditions and RBTI interpretation.
By the way the WAPF is not always the carbon copy of WAP. For example their statement that you can use liberal amount of good fats and that you should combine fats even with fruits seems to me to come from their own belief about blood sugar chemistry and insuline resistance rather than being the words of WAP. Nevertheless their work is still priceless.
But furthermore an idea has crept into my mind; Reams and Challen have tested countless people and deducted their findings on forbidden food etc. but is it not logical to assume (I might be wrong) that 90% of their testing was done on ILL people? And that the same reactions might not be found if tested on an equally great number of healthy people? Because so far we still have to take their words for it and don't know their protocol; who were the tested subjects, what was their typical diet, ethnic background etc. (Asians being more sensitive to dairy for example). All those factors might account for different findings and therefore different rules if the tested subjects were different.
To give you an idea scorpions have the ability to survive heavy doses of atomic radiations unharmed; if therefore we were to test the effect of radiations with scorpions as sole subjects we would conclude the atom is harmless.
The subject of test determine the finding and the rules deducted; it does not mean these rules are true for the whole human population.
This is where I don't like RBTI: their rules are presented as sacred to achieve health. I question it somehow...
While it is still slightly confusing for me, this whole RBTI concept is extremely interesting, especially for someone of my diet history. This may be a long post, but once I get into what i ate when I was younger it may be interesting.
ReplyDeleteI'm still a teenager and before stumbling upon your blog, I just took my different health problems as they came, so to speak. I was lean and healthy and full of energy when I was younger (meaning like from birth to about 10 or 11 years old) but once I started getting into puberty, I started having a ton of problems.
I had bad allergies consistently. My attitude and personality turned from extremely outgoing and the class clown to shy and almost sweating if put into a situation where I was the "center" of something.
(which was also probably exasperated by moving to a new city and a new school, I lived in a relatively small town before, where everyone was really friendly, all the kids got along, no divorced families, or anything. Then we moved and I remember how I felt when I first came to know someone with divorced parents. I also witnessed and became the victim of kids making fun of other kids openly. Family and food was comfort, so I ate quite a lot.)
I would get really tired often and have brain fog and what not, but I just thought it was normal (what the poop?). In middle school, I had terrible constipation episodes which I eventually got over but digestion still wasn't always sound.
I would get these "bubbles" on my gums (I used to know what they were called haha) that would go away in a few days. I remember thinking "this is weird! it feels funny!" and looking at it in the mirror only slightly worried.
My physical appearance was very puffy, not obese, but fat around the middle, with thin arms and fat, long legs. I thought I would grow and this was a normal awkward puberty stage.
Then all of a sudden, I became very scared for my health once I became old enough to realize that my problems weren't just "thingies that would go away and that were normal" I looked up a lot of health info. Very long story short, I came upon your blog.
Reading about this RBTI, here was my consistent diet of my childhood and early teens...
I would eat salami sandwiches ALL THE FREAKING TIME. I was very picky, so no vegetables or fruits (I would freak out about the "green stuff" in mashed potatoes) So I ate a TON of pepperoni pizza (whether in rolls or whatever). I'd even cut pepperoni and salami of a stick and eat it alone... I used to hang out with a friend whose mom bought Jimmy Dean sausages and I'd go over there (very very often) and eat no less than 8 links of pork sausage with waffles and syrup every time. (I ate a lot of food to the point of feeling sick because I was a huge food fan baha) I would eat massive dinners (once again to the point I could barely move I was so full...) Penne pasta covered in cheese. tons of white potatoes, with a giant bowl of ice cream and oreos after. I'd get hungry in the middle of the night and make a bowl of icecream complete with a package of cinnamon poptarts. I didn't play sports because I didn't feel energetic enough. No desire for much movement haha! I loved club sandwiches with extra bacon. A lot of potato chips too. I'd have candy binges before dinner and think that eating actual food would make me feel better...which it actually did, even though actual healthy food to me was white bread, pasta, potatoes, pork tenderloin (we had that a lot)...Still, i wasn't huge because sometimes I'd binge on food then couldn't stand to eat very much of anything, especially things like candy or ice cream, for a couple days. That's just a part. But I guess I'm just highlighting the assload amounts of pork and used to eat.
I'm sorry for the length and the horrific sentence structure by the way. I just wanted to hurry up and type it out :D
ReplyDeleteI'd be curious to know how consistent the large lunch, small dinner idea is with healthy traditional societies. Any one have a clue what their meal schedules were/are like?
ReplyDelete@In - Meal times
ReplyDeleteFood was considered communal property among the Māori. It was distributed by an official who was placed in charge of the food warehouse. Communal ownership of food prevented an unlucky fisherman (and his family) from going hungry.
The Māori ate two meals per day. Breakfast was eaten a few hours after waking, and dinner was eaten in the early evening. A light snack sufficed for lunch.
Before contact with Europeans was established, the Māori diet consisted primarily of vegetables, though fish was not an uncommon food. They correctly believed that diet affected health, and that regular bowels were an important aspect of general health. From http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Outreach/Maori_Lore - perhaps not the most authoritative source, but I haven't time to continue searching.
Pre-european Maori ate fish, shellfish and crustaceans, eels, birds, insects, kumara, pounded fernroot (apparently tasteless and fibrous and laborious to process), dog, rats, each other and anything else from bush or beach that was edible.
They were considered to be tall and muscular - http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/te-hauora-maori-i-mua-history-of-maori-health/1. Maori of the 20th century feature in Weston A. Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.
Regarding children and meat, interesting that human breastmilk is only 7% protein. Perhaps kids naturally are suited to less protein in their diet. Which would mean less meat.
ReplyDeleteWhat if you don't want to drink milk? What else can you drink in the evening? I get so very thirsty.
ReplyDeleteSay you're making pancakes... olive oil is kinda yucky on pancakes. So, what is more no-no, butter or coconut oil? Not gonna use corn oil. No way. I figure if you can occasionally eat the nasty hydrogenated oils in processed foods, you can occasionally use butter or coconut oil.
http://www.alternativehealth.co.nz/cancer/liverflush.htm
ReplyDeleteliver flush overview
-Anonymous
The cold hands and feet is something I experienced as a vegan, despite eating fortified foods. I was perpetually cold. But when I first ate a cheese pizza, it was like I was suddenly warm. And I moved onto eggs and eventually meat and also got more body warmth from that. To this day, more than a year (almost two years actually) since I quit veganism, I have rarely experienced the cold hands and feet that I had as a vegan. I believe as far as helping the body stay warm, animal foods are best.
ReplyDeleteSo, had some ice cream for the first time in ten years yesterday. It tasted terrible, like putting a spoonful of sugar in my mouth. Disgusting...but yes, overeating for lunch definitely made me cope way better with just a small meal in the night, I wasn't cold, I didn't feel dizzy or particularly hungry etc. I only hope this will help me loose some of the post low carb weight I can't seem to get rid of....Curses to low carb for ruining my metabolism!!!
ReplyDeletebtw, liver flushes are a nightmare to go through...take it from one who has done loads of them... never helped my digestion one bit either...but I guess everyone can react differently...but for me they were only pure suffering and no benefits....but for sure the stones are real. I had a lab analyze them and they are real kidney stones. Know that you may require emergency surgery if a stone gets stuck in a bile duct during a flush...it's risky stuff.
ReplyDeleteMatt, that's so interesting that Weston Price was interested in Ph. It makes so much sense that that could cause tooth decay.
I'll second Lisa E's statement on low carb. Everything used to click along so well. I had insomnia issues but not much beyond that. My body would catch the sleep back up and it never felt shitty like it often does now. I was warm most of the time, cold hands and feet sometimes. I ate whatever and gained no weight. If I ate more, I got hungry later, period. Didn't matter what it was. If I binged occasionally, it seemed to have no impact. Does this not sound like everything was already functioning correctly? Curses to low carb.
ReplyDeleteHawaiiGirl,
ReplyDeleteI have been wondering the same thing. If the oils in the Golden Oreos aren't that bad- what's a little butter going to hurt? I don't mean Sally Fallon cube of butter in the oatmeal amount- but a tablespoon or two in pancake batter?
I should be getting my testing equipment by next week- all for about $100 on Amazon with free shipping.
I am going to consult with Challen, and then test the butter/coconut oil thing......
Deedle
@Laurent,
ReplyDeleteFunny how you mentioned Challen's parental perceptions. I happened to come across this study yesterday: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19958913 Apparently over 80% of mothers think their kids eat healthy food, while the reality is that only 0.2% of the kids were eating 'good food'. Who knows what good food means in this particular study. But it does point out how people's perceptions are fairly biased.
At the people who are wondering about various no foods: I wonder the same thing. It seems ludicrous that some foods are ALWAYS bad in EVERY situation. I don't actually eat much of the no foods anyways, so it wouldn't be a big deal for me to cut out the one or two that I still do eat (like coconut, seeded fruits, and white potatoes) but it's just the circular logic argument that bugs me: don't eat them because it shows up in the numbers.
This plays into my other suspicious thought about the RBTI: what if this equation reflects the numbers at which a body becomes dependent upon the supplements that are sold? The supplements keep the body in a certain (homeostatic) state, and certain foods react to throw this (balanced) state off, thus they are the no no foods. If you don't eat them, the body, along with the supplements, maintains a homeostatic state in line with mainstream ideas of health.
I know there are a number of problems with my idea here, one being that in one of the videos, Challen says that he only gives her distilled water, and nothing else to help her (i.e. no supplements). But I'm suspicious, so my mind is having fun coming up with various narratives to try to explain this whole thing.
Jannis, SJ, Laurent, et al.-
ReplyDeleteI think Matt has met at least some of Challen's kids. Maybe he asked them? They could be fibbing too, but it'd be secondary (or primary) corroboration.
Today is 2 weeks on RBTI.
ReplyDeleteI called Challen. My brix is still low .9 I feel awful.
Very weak.
I can't eat enough fruit to bring my brix up during the day. I did have a few days last week where my brix came up. I think the supplements drop the brix. I know for sure the lemonade drops the brix. I am on juices only, no water.
Challen says my numbers show I have eaten something bad. He thinks it is probably pork in a vitamin E, or in TCBY White Chocolate Yogurt.
Trouble is, I have in the past eaten bacon, and pork chops in the same week. NEVER have I felt this awful. I stay nauseated, and very weak.
The rules state that everyday the brix falls below 1.2 you lose 6 days of healing. This means that I am negative more weeks now, than what I have put in.
I have had so much fruit today already. Three big fruit smoothies, and my last brix as of 15 minutes ago is .6
I have to eat so much fruit and drink fruit juice just to try to get the brix up. I am left nauseated with no room in my stomach for food. Although I have been force feeding every meal for the two weeks.
I am too weak to take proper care of myself.
Challen did not offer any real changes. He said, get the pork out, and my sugar will come up.
I find this hard to believe; as stated earlier of my former pork consumption.
It is clear I am losing energy here.
Betty
SJ,
ReplyDeleteI've had a lot of the same thoughts as you, although I don't think RBTI would make one dependent. My assumption would be that after a decent amount of healing you should be able to go back to being more free. That's my plan at least.
The no foods do kind of bug me though. Pork seems plausible from studying other cultures. It seems from what I've been able to gather meat consumption was generally a lot lower and pork was often for special occasions. Plus not just Jews and Muslims avoided it.
Butter on the other hand I have a tough time with. I can't imagine that being an absolute no considering how it's almost universally revered in every culture, being burned in candles as offering in religious ceremonies. Something needs to be correlated there.
Betty,
That's unfortunate to hear your experience is so bad. This is what concerns me about RBTI. I feel there are a lot of rules. It may be that you're not getting enough guidance or it may be that Challen is really not able to help you. I would try to get a hold of Matt or Pippa or someone you can bounce a lot of questions off of if I were you. This is why I want to meet up in person... there are too many questions.
This brings up another concern I have. If the people like you drop out, then you just become part of the "they didn't follow the program" grouping. So far, despite all the feedback rolling in, there is no systematic way for determining whether RBTI is really working for 180 people. Maybe a post RBTI trial survey or something.
I couldn’t sleep easily last night and came up with some ideas on RBTI…I must say that I am also influenced by the book The black Swan that I am currently reading and that shows how our brains are selective, discard wild speculation and rewrite memory to back up our beliefs amongst other things.
ReplyDeleteSo my idea is that the fact that Reams (and Challen) was a hardcore Christian may have tainted his interpretation. This is a point that has been brought by other readers but I would like to go further in this logic. Reams was a real Christian and as such aware of the forbidden food listed in the Bible. This was already rooted in his scientific mind.
Therefore I make the bold hypothesis that he would have found negative effects on these foods even if they have NO negative effects on body chemistry ! He would have changed his way of testing slightly, took other test subjects, or interpret minor variations with much greater emphasis because that is what he EXPECTED to find! Not necessarily because it was there in the first place…The same would apply to a Muslim or a vegetarian researcher I suppose.
This in an hypothesis but not a stretch. Ansel Key anyone? Or Campbell’s China study? The current board of directors of the Frammigan’s studies – who basically are still backing the cholesterol hypothesis even if 30 years of their own study show otherwise? These guys have already drawn the conclusions before starting their research: they only look for corroborative evidence that they will stretch and twist until it fit their hypothesis- rather than rethink their system of belief. No matter what the findings of Ream might have been I think he COULDN’T have acknowledged the Bible no-food as health promoting, or problem free; his mind couldn’t work around it (that would basically means God – or his hypothetical words – is wrong!).
Add to this the opacity of Reams studies – due to his secrecy by fear of legal problems - and we know very little of his protocol and subjects tested. What would be more convincing is to have the same tests done again on a large group of people – sick and healthy alike – by “unbiased” scientists (is there such a thing?lol).
Moreover I remember Challen saying that chronical health problems might not be so easy to detect with RBTI. I therefore suspect that even if butter, potatoes or coconut oil temporarily throw the PH out of range, consuming pasteurized skim milk, soy, corn oil, spreads and high fructose corn syrup might not affect the PH but still lead to a bunch of nasty health problems that will only shows after 5, 10 years etc.
Basically what I am saying is that temporary PH variations might not be the most accurate factor to determine health on the long run – and that dangerous food might not show in the test.
I think for most of us we are already the point of disbelief – we agree that Reams and Challen protocol has a healing effect. The bigger question is: is this the right protocol once health is recovered for long term? I don’t think so – and SJ’s idea on the protocol valid as long as you take the RBTI supplements is scary but might be true. If the system alienates you into using these supplements for the rest of your life – personally I don’t think it is freedom, health or improve my life.
Last but not least, how can we be sure that the PH variation after a certain type of food is not the equivalent to the insulin peak after carbs – a normal body reaction unrelated to health?
Betty's comment brings up another point I have. At what point do you stop ignoring your body's signals and the way you're feeling and go back to trying to sort things out yourself. One of the red flags for me even while doing low-carb is that at some point I was beginning to feel I was going against my own intuition. Wouldn't the "common sense" in Betty's case tell her to stop messing around with RBTI?
ReplyDeleteLaurent,
ReplyDeleteVery good points, but we also cannot ignore the case studies Matt has witnessed directly as part of his time with Challen.
Confirmation bias, selective memories, etc. will always be problems. It just has to do with the limits on how our brains can process information. It's just not possible to critically analyze an endless stream of data on every potential theory. At some point we need to settle on one or more ideas and start applying some "filters".
That being said, I think the medical establishment responds very poorly to the educated but critical public. Are Chris Masterjohn's criticisms of the Lipid Hypothesis ever going to meet serious debate in the medical community? They're very thorough and well thought out, but somehow I doubt it.
As I've said before, any source can offer potential insights. Those interested in truth must be willing to scour as many sources as possible and apply rigorous questioning and critical thought.
(continuing)
ReplyDeleteI was thinking with RBTI with PHs and everything. Perhaps there are certain parameters the body always controls within certain narrow ranges (i.e. homeostasis absolutely essential for survival) but to achieve that, other things may be allowed to compromise from their ideal range.
The blood pH may not change, but the urine pH may be going up or down to compensate. The more up or down, the more energy your body is wasting to maintain essential homeostasis and the less it can apply to healing.
My personal experience would tell me that the more out of balance a system is, the more delicately it needs to be handled to get everything back in place. This, to me, is the main concept behind RBTI. It also explains why healthy people can eat whatever while people with screwed up health try everything and go for years with their conditions.
One thing I keep pointing out every time people say Reams picked these foods due to religion - Christians vehemently reject the idea of Old Testament "no" foods being unclean. According to the New Testament, God made all these foods clean. To believe otherwise is rather heretic. So, the theory that Reams would have been biased to find OT foods as no foods because he was Christian is not very likely. Now, if he were Jewish or Muslim, that theory might make sense...
ReplyDelete(continuing)
ReplyDeleteAs for the ideas on how Challen and Reams came to their conclusions, and how there's a lack of any real evidence... it would be nice to have a couple things.
One would be everybody logging their numbers, along with the advice from their consultations, any deviations from the protocol, and how they're feeling and whether they think the RBTI is working. William has a log built into rbti.info but I doubt anybody is using it, which is unfortunate.
Another would be to set up group experiments. If enough 180 followers have test kits and are doing RBTI, then we do a controlled experiment. Half eat pork at one meal, half don't. Then we would have some scientific verification of the NO foods.
Betty, are you eating anything besides fruit? My WAPF-influenced mind is shuddering at the thought of not eating enough fat or protein or complex carbs along with fruit. Eating almost nothing but fruit makes me shaky and weak, RBTI or not.
ReplyDeleteDo you eat enough pre-made food to have pork hiding out? Could you eat just homemade combined single ingredient (ie only rice, only olive oil, only steak - no place for pig to hide) meals? Also, you said he said probably pork... so maybe it's something else. He did say most people get worse before better. It's a standard mantra of healing protocols. The question is, when is it a detox, and when is it just making you sick...
Lorelei,
ReplyDeleteI cook all my meals from scratch.
I don't use processed foods. Unless you consider olive oil, or the juices I am drinking.
No to just fruit. I have been forcing food. But, the rules of the sugar say that if the brix is below 1.5 eat a piece of fruit. If the brix is .5 or lower put sugar under the tongue. So my brix stays so low that I have no choice but to eat fruit non-stop.
Adequate fat is a concern for me too. Without butter, one is left with olive oil. Well, for me anyway because NO to the corn oil.
I don't care for olive oil in many of my foods.
I eat gluten free oats, millet, amaranth, brown rice, yams, sweet potato, fruits, eggs, two salads daily, meat always with lunch, broccoli, asparagus, okra, corn, etc. I have even been soaking my meat to remove all blood.
I have been having ice cream for dessert. Two or three times I had the TCBY white chocolate yogurt.
So I guess there is fat in the ice cream. :)
Betty
@Lorelei
ReplyDeleteI actually made this point very carefully - on Reams beliefs that old testament no-food might be unclean. We had a bit of a heated argument with Jacqueline in the comment of a previous RBTI post on the matter. Basiscally here it is, straight from Reams mouth (so to speak).
Quote from Dr. Carey Reams in Choose Life Or Death:
"I have been practicing health and teaching the health message
as it is written in the Bible. This health message begins in the
first chapter of Genesis: "I have given you every herb bearing
seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in
which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed to you it shall be for
meat" (1 : 29). "I will even set my face against the soul that eateth
blood . . . For the life of the flesh is in the blood" (Lev. 17:
1 0- 1 1 ) . In other words, we should take the blood out of the
meat. God gave man the right to eat any animal immediately after the flood, but in the eleventh chapter of Leviticus God gave
Moses the instruction concerning the clean and the unclean animals.
In Leviticus 1 7 we are given rules for the sanitation of the
clean and unclean meats.
The unclean meats will not necessarily keep you out of
heaven, but you will probably die and get where you are going to
spend eternity a lot quicker."
So Ream might have been a confused Christian, a closeted Jewish or Muslim but there is no doubt whatsoever that nutrition as taught by the old testament was foundation of his beliefs and finding in nutrition. He make no mystery of it.
Betty: you're also getting fats in the eggs, meat, oats and amaranth (a little bit, but it adds up).
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's your olive oil that is causing your issues? I think that was a problem with Moi, right? She had rancid/old olive oil?
Sorry to hear that you are feeling like crap. I hope it passes soon or that Matt or Pippa can help.
SJ
ReplyDeleteI asked Challen if he thought it could be my olive oil. He said, no. Too, I bought the bottle two weeks ago. It smells fine to me.
SJ
ReplyDeleteoops, forgot my name in previous comment.
Betty
@AaronF
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify my previous comments: I trust Matt and what he has witnessed and will try Challen hopefully next year to see if RBTI takes me to the next level to overcome food intolerance etc.
However when it comes to some RBTI recommendations - leaving the no food out for now, but as far a corn oil, corn syrup, soy or pasteurized milk are concerned - I will disobey Challen recommendations.
I understand that in his system, backed up by the finding of 2 people, it's ok; but by the studies of numerous other people that I trust and who are more transparent on their methods and findings (WAPF, Guyenet, Dr Malcom Kendricks and so on) these foods are harmful to the body - and this to me will prevail.
Yeah, but, did he write that book and preach the OT health message before or after he came up with the no list?
ReplyDeleteI don't really care. Sure, he may be biased by his beliefs. But it's not a standard Christian bias. I'm not Christian, but I get tired of everything being bashed because it's "Christian". Gets old to listed to.
Betty, when you say you cook from scratch, do you mean like my sisters - making Hamburger Helper and Betty Crocker cake mix in the oven is "from scratch" to them :). Just kidding.
ReplyDeleteIf I were in your shoes, I probably would have run out and eaten a whole package of bacon by now. I hope you figure it out.
Betty,
ReplyDeleteHmm. Pretty weird to think there might be pork in that yogurt, eh? I suppose it could be present in a filler-type ingredient. Fascinating. Either way, I hope you feel better soon.
Laurent, it's cool that you are going to check him out next year. Based on what I learn from everyone's experiences here, I might give Challen a shot too. Kind of scary to hand my health over to only one person on earth who can interpret my numbers, though.
However, I'm hoping that by that time there will be enough data/experience/knowledge amassed that at least some of us will be able to interpret the numbers as well as Challen. We still don't know why Matt thinks Challen is better than anyone else doing RBTI, but if Matt's intentions are really to help people, then I'm sure he will share whatever knowledge he learns with everyone else, thus bringing all current RBTI practitioners and would-be practitioners up to Challen's level. Matt keeps on saying things like, "It's not rocket science," so I'm sure there must be more than one person who can read numbers/get results, even if there is a (steep? long?) learning curve involved.
@AaronF,
ReplyDeleteFrom last post's comments- you can email me RobA289 then the email that google does. you know it
catch you then...
@Lorelei, not bashing anyone because they are Christians - my parents are, love them the same lol
ReplyDeleteJust saying religious beliefs should not be the basis, or the posteriori justification in my opinion, of nutritional theories; if Reams would have been jewish I suspect he would have found that cooking meat and dairy together lower numbers because it mix blood and milk.
This is not a bashing of religion, and I fail to see how my very detailed posts could be interpreted as such - it is just a call for unbiased methods.
Hope I'm clearer then.
Lorelei
ReplyDeleteLOL! on the bacon. :)
Too funny "Hamburger Helper" and
Cake mixes... :)
I did give up on the fruit, and ate a hamburger patty. My sugar came up!
I am really confused. I am thinking that I am having a reaction to many of the carbs.
I do have auto-immune issues. I don't know that these types of reactions are measurable in RBTI.
Reams does say that those with Lupus (me) are hard cases.
I told Challen in our very first phone conversation that I have been dx with lupus, and sjogrens.
He said, sjogrens is a liver problem. That is all that was said about it.
I don't know that he remembers this information, or even if he would find it pertinent to my numbers.
Betty
Laurent -
ReplyDeleteNot you specifically. It's just a general underlying snarkiness about Christianity from RBTI disbelievers that gets to me. If he were Muslim, we'd all be choosing our criticisms vis a vis mixing religion and science waaaay more carefully. Bit of a double standard.
You may not fall into that category, but when I read a bunch of comments at once, I can't always remember who said what.
If Carey Reams and-or Challen were devout Muslim and pushing a high specified supposed scientifically proven diet that happened to be based exact on Halal/Haraam Islamic food laws? Nobody would be critical?
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding?? Of **course** people would be looking at it closely and asking question just the same. Probly even more so. I hope at least!
if Carey Reams and Challen were strict Hindu and saying all cow meat caused some loss of energy, so throw out all your hamburger pans , same questions would be asked.
That's not snarky, thats just good sense. People go looking for stuff to prove their version of religion true all the time. Should everyone ignore that? What good does that do??
Say if they were Scientologists. Scientology's Purification program asks for lots of high does niacin, crazy high amounts according to their bible and tapes from Ron Hubbard. So if RBTI were to push lots of niacin would that just be a coincidence? is it snarky against Scientolgists to ask why?
Lorelei I'm realy sorry but you can't make generalisatons about all Christians. There are lots of different sects and churches. Lots of groups do not agree on **any**thing specific. Old Testament or New Testament, Diet or other. One group's idea of heretic is another groups true follower.
Looks like Carey Reams was a 7th Day Adventist for lots of years before he came up with RBTI No Nos.
His foods are exactly in line with 7DA food rules
www.sdada.org/biblical.htm
Maybe thats a coincidence. maybe not. Seeing it and saying so is not snarky or bashing. I'm sorry I honestly just don't see it that way.
Jen
Matt -
ReplyDeleteHaven't read the other comments yet... But it seems like what you're talking about is more like low protein diets and not so much about vegetarian diets? Or does vegetable protein present less of a digestive challenge?
Actually, SDA is vegetarian - the link is http://www.sdada.org/position.htm.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely not totally in line with RBTI.
Lorelei - In the evenings, you can drink clear carbonated beverages (ginger ale, sprite) or skim milk.
ReplyDeleteI got my numbers checked today (it's been two weeks since I started) and he said it looked like I was having sweets/fruit after 2pm, but I wasn't! Turned out I'm drinking way too much sprite/ginger ale in the evening. A little is okay, but not a lot.
I told him, I'm sooo thirsty, I can't help it. He said I'm thirsty because my diet is poor, and it's causing me to have too much alcohol in my body, which makes me thirsty.
He says that once I fix my blood sugar, the thirst will completely go away. He also said that I need to make sure to drink all of my lemonade/distilled water and that should take care of most of my thirst.
He also gave some eating out tips I thought were interesting: avoid anything cooked in a skillet or grill, but steamed, baked or broiled is fine.
Order waffles (have their own skillet), but not pancakes (usually shared with bacon).
I haven't seen huge improvements in two weeks, but I also haven't been as strict as I need to (which is important when you're ill). But, both my husband and I are sleeping better, I've seen a bit of improvement in my skin, and (best of all) my anxiety has diminished quite a bit.
I didn't even realize it until I thought about the last two weeks. I've only "lost it" once, and that time I was able to stay calm. I used to have these sorts of break-down/mini panic attacks almost daily! I feel much more even-keeled, even though I still feel some anxiety.
Also, my sweet baby has started having bms on her own! That's great news.
For now, I'm going to stick with it. I'm still having occasional nausea, and I'm bone tired, but nothing worse. Easier to wake up in the morning.
Happy to hear about your progress, Kelly! Sounds like good stuff!
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks for sharing all that about eating out. Great tips! I wasn't even going to sweat those concerns as I have not been able to get out at all for so long that it just wasn't anything to consider at this point. Needing to do whatever it takes to get well. But I have been feeling better so quickly that I have been starting to wonder how easily this will really translate in the real world!
I went grocery shopping today! And that would be the most grueling outing I have taken since June. There is no way I could have even walked across a super market to collect one item a month ago.
Lorelei I'm sorry to continue as I do not want to argue, please don't take my posts the wrong way I hope. Look into the Wikipedia and other places as well please. 7th Day Adventists are not required to be vegetarian, it is just recommended as suggestion or for very strict followers.- the Founder of the church said no meat eaters would be translated to Heaven when Christ returns.) It sounds a lot like the Carey Reams quote up earlier.
ReplyDeleteBut for most 7DA meat is allowed in limited quantity or according to health, exactly as in RBTI.
Adventists are very strict on the same absolute No foods as Carey Reams even when meat is allowed though.There is no difference.
Jen
Kelly, nice update.
ReplyDeleteSeems crazy that Sprite is ok and fruit is not! I wonder if Perrier would be good.
Good to know about the thirstiness.
Keep getting better!
You too Sarah!
Sprite is ok?
ReplyDelete5 ounces of sprite contains 16 grams of straight white sugar... that's like more than a tablespoon. Plus a preservative linked to Parkinsons and hyperactivity. Not to mention all the chemicals used in refining sugar. :/
A couple slices of apple have like 6 to 9 grams natural sugars.
Kelly, did he say whether fruit or sprite was preferred? I can't see how a couple pieces of fruit after 2pm would be worse than Sprite... maybe I'm missing something. T.i.A.!
Betty, Have you checked out the website that is recommended for learning what foods are Kosher and what's not? thegodofisrealrc.com, or something...
ReplyDeleteI was surprised to see how much random stuff had pork hiding in it by some obscure ingredient.
I hope you feel better soon!
Are you simply experiencing a rough "withdrawal"? I know Moi didn't feel consistently well for quite a while. I guess it's very different for everyone.
I am all for the clean and unclean foods of the Bible. We have followed this principle for years. BUT, according to the Bible butter and cream are CLEAN foods!
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I will be tested in Minneapolis this weekend.
Is it okay to start some of the "rules" before we go or would it be a better reading to eat like we have been?
We have been WAPFer's for decades (but for health and religious reasons haven't eaten any of the unclean foods) and have been very low carbers (Bee Wilder's Candida Diet) the last few years.
For all the work we have done we are not getting better and actually feeling worse overall that is why we are willing to try this new approach. It is a hard bite to chew since we are WAPF Chapter Leaders.
@Jasemeal,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you completely on the butter. I am also getting tested in Mpls this weekend. Look forward to meeting you. Are you WAPF chapter members in Mpls or outside the Twin Cities? Are you members of the TFMN warehouse?
As far as testing, it's presumably better to not change anything prior to the initial test. My personality is that I take a piece of information and run with it, so I've already experimented with changing meals around. I haven't cut out butter yet though. Just this morning I fried myself up some eggs in butter and only much later thought that on RBTI it would have to be olive oil.
I am skeptical of Bee Wilder. I know that Lisa E. over at http://healingendo.blogspot.com/ followed that for a while and I think it only messed up her health worse. I did WAPF friendly low-carb for a couple years and I have to say my body hasn't felt right since, even a year and a half later. That's part of why I'm interested in RBTI.
If you haven't checked out Matt's ebooks yet, they very systematically break down much of the low-carb dogma.
@Jasemeal and AaronF: it will be fascinating to hear your results after you get tested. I would do like you're already thinking...stick to the foods you usually eat, in order to get a more accurate idea of results.
ReplyDeleteAaronF, I meant to write yesterday that I think your ideas on trying to get a 'baseline' of data are great. You wrote:
"One would be everybody logging their numbers, along with the advice from their consultations, any deviations from the protocol, and how they're feeling and whether they think the RBTI is working. William has a log built into rbti.info but I doubt anybody is using it, which is unfortunate.
Another would be to set up group experiments. If enough 180 followers have test kits and are doing RBTI, then we do a controlled experiment. Half eat pork at one meal, half don't. Then we would have some scientific verification of the NO foods."
Any systematic way of trying to gather this information will probably prove invaluable down the line.
Thanks SJ,
ReplyDeleteI will do my best to keep track although I don't know if I will truly be getting started right away. Many social commitments in September.
Yes the very low carb Bee Wilder program destroyed me and many other readers of 180. I did it for close to one year. LisaE did for closer to 3-4yrs I think, which I believe she greatly regrets.
ReplyDeleteLowcarb is crap long-term, might be helpful short-term for some (ie weightloss), but long term is very detrimental to good health, and weightloss doesn't equate good health for most.
I believe the discussion now is heading in a good direction though, making up for unfertile soil (WAP devoted many chapters to this subject in NAPD), with proper supplements and aligning body chemistry to utilize the vitamins and minerals properly from whole food and supps. Look forward to more updates, as this might be a another tool that people can use.
AaronF,
ReplyDeleteThe whole diet thing is so frustrating!! I keep thinking I have found "the answer" and I never get better. I just tried the LowFodmaps diet with no real results. Three weeks now with no nightshades or eggs and again, no results, I was going to try the "Perfect Diet" next but then stumbled onto RBTI. I thought Bee's diet was the answer and tried it for two years and just got really weak. WAPF just always made so much sense (my kids are still on the GAPS DIET). I am going to have a hard time wrapping my husband's brain around this one!!
We are chapter leaders outside the Twin Cities and yes, we are/were members of the warehouse. My daughters sold things there the little time it was really open.
The healthiest people in the world have traditionally included small to moderate amounts of pork in their diet.
ReplyDeleteSome people cannot tolerate fruit. If I eat fruit I immediately experience hypoglycemia and am ravenous. One I am done eating, if I touch fruit again, I get the blood sugar plunge again. Be careful. Fruit is a huge no for me and I know others who react similarly. Probably having to do with fruits that predominate in free fructose.
Most of his no foods have featured prominently in diets of peoples who have had very good health.
Seriously, this diet reminds me a lot of the eat right for your blood type (which also eliminates pork for everyone, but also tomatoes) diet and many people swear by that too.
Probably any moderate diet which does not include any heavy or bingy type of drug use (including caffeine, alcohol and chocolate) that is not too obsessive or restrictive on what one can eat will be beneficial.
To James Kimbell, 30.08.2011, concerning the iceberg comment:
ReplyDeleteI did not know until now (the opium-alike effect), I had to find it out on my own in a hard way: iceberg IS different than other varieties, it is the only salad which is able to smooth down my heart rate. I wish I would have known the easy way and not lying awake uncountable nights because of an increased heart rate.
This statement and another in Challens videos catched my interest in RBTI and Challen in particular. Diet is key, but we lost our natural intuition long ago before any additives aso came up. Wild (eating) animals generally are NOT sick.
DrGreger found vegetarians with low levels Salicylic Acid (like aspirin) circulating
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZIGKEmTb0Y&feature=BFa&list=PL53AA35449C7DD652&lf=PlayList#t=3m35s - http://is.gd/GHc8Bl 'fruits and veggies.pdf' and 'ASA.pdf'