On my crazy road trip, I took the time to swing by the Platte family farm in Rochester, New York. The Platte family has had a history of many debilitating health problems, but used RBTI, as well as clearing their homes of black mold, to get dramatic improvements - especially since they made the recent switch to working with Challen Waychoff.
Their RBTI experiences have been so inspiring that they decided to take the plunge and buy a tract of land to start some "Reams-based agronomy" for themselves and their local community.
Reams believed that the Brix reading was the best indicator of the nutritional quality of a food. The Brix reading shows the total amount of dissolved solids - such as sugar, in a drop of liquid squeezed from the food. While not the be-all, end-all of gauging the nutritional quality of a food, there often is a very strong correlation between vitamin and mineral density and the Brix reading. The higher the reading, the better the product. Reams developed the chart below...
One thing you will see with foods of higher nutritional quality is a higher specific gravity - meaning that the fruit or vegetable feels very heavy for its size. This is one thing I really noticed when I put a Platte-farm squash, some peppers, and a few tomatoes in a plastic bag. The bag felt like it was full of rocks, and was very heavy even though very little was in the bag. The squash felt like a freakin' meteorite or something - small, but very heavy like you would expect something to feel that was saturated with dense minerals.
Another indicator is complete resistance to insect damage, fungus, and so forth. As you will see in the video I shot, the leaves on the crops they are growing are completely pristine. And they use no pesticides or herbicides or anything of that nature.
And one really amazing indicator of nutritional superiority is that the food doesn't rot. Literally. It may dehydrate, but it does not rot or go bad.
Anyway, I knew some of you out there, like Rob A. who I was able to give a sneak preview to, are really inspired by growing foods with great nutritional superiority. So here is a taste of what one family, with no farming knowledge going into it, was able to achieve by their 2nd growing season in soil that was totally depleted when they started. Pretty remarkable.
If this kind of stuff really turns you on, you can find out more from the Platte family on the RBTI yahoo forum that Pippa put together a few months ago.
You can also get in touch with Thomas Giannou in Spokane, WA (who is growing 4-ft. tall broccoli and 28-Brix grapes - 2 points higher than the world's best winemakers acknowledge is even possible), who sells starter kits for farms and gardens that sound pretty remarkable.
Also, Pip and I will again be hitting the road again soon en route to Colorado for my good friend's wedding. We will be making many diversions to test people along the way just like we did on our recent trip to New York/New Jersey. So if you are anywhere between West Virginia and Colorado - including Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, Iowa, Nebraska, etc. - including of course Denver, Boulder, Colorado Springs, etc. - then let Pip know immediately at pipparoni@yahoo.com. We will try our best to get to everyone.
My girlfriend and I are very interested... We're still living in Denver, so we may get ahold of pip alrighty!!!
ReplyDeleteI was testing the dissolved solids in our coffee at work today in our refractometer, and i felt like peeing in it to see what my reading was!!! haha!!
troy
The Amish are getting interested in Brix. I subscribe to one of their monthly newspapers. They chatter back and forth about other subjects, too, like getting rid of veggie oils, burn therapies, doing pasture only cattle, etc.
ReplyDeleteRemember Findhorn (1962-present) - http://www.findhorn.org/
ReplyDeletePlus ca change....
ok, now I'm tripping out a little. That is super inspiring. You just took it up a notch.
ReplyDeleteMatt,
ReplyDeleteWhat would be the best way to go about an RBTI program? I live in NY and I don't think I can drive down to Virginia right now. Does Challen take phone clients? And how expensive is he? Is there a registry of RBTI practitioners? Are any of them as good as Challen?
I have persistent health problems that are not disappearing on a Paleo diet no matter what macro-nutrient ration I try. And my doctors just keep prescribing pills. I'd really like to try RBTI but I don't know how to go about it.
--Jack
Yeah, high Brix gardening is amazing stuff. Definitely doing my research and thinking about subsequent gardening seasons. Like I asked Matt, I wonder whether Challen or others would note a drop in the numbers from 'bad' foods like potatoes if they were actually high brix. My guess is no. We'll see, though.
ReplyDeleteI bet Michael Miles will have some thoughts too- he's big on this stuff as well.
Keep on trucking, Mateo- I like the direction this is all moving in. Will stay tuned for more.
This is great! I'm an amateur gardener, and it would be great fun to compare my regular produce to produce grown in high brix soil.
ReplyDeleteI also think this will help people understand the basic principles behind the RBTI as well.
I didn't catch in the video which organization(s) we could go to in order to get started. Anyone know?
Subscribing for emails. :o)
ReplyDeleteThey must homeschool. That kid is like the ones that used to drive me completely NUTS at the homeschool gatherings! Gaaaahhhh!!! :)
ReplyDeleteSeriously cool.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what you'd get if you used these techniques to grow tobacco...
ReplyDeleteQuick question for anyone who might know - what's up with Challan's CDs and DVDs? Are they the same material as in the books, or additional material?
Nice. I see a vid of a farmer with a cute kid talking about tasty produce. Sounds like reams knew his stuff about farming.He grew up on one right. ?
ReplyDeleteso .... urine = human-juice?
Juice from a vegetable or leaf is the same as a fruit is the same as a tuber ?
equates to human urine........ how.
?
The Yahoo group says you'll be refused if you aren't already working with Challen. :(
ReplyDeleteWhuh?
ReplyDeleteReallyRBTI:
For people who are working with/ have worked with or interested in working with Challen, Who desire to share stories and help support each other whilst undergoing their journey to wellness. This is not a general RBTI group so if you are not working with Challen please do not apply as you are likely to be refused.
So there's an elite in-group now if you want the real scoop or details on how to get better? I don't have $600 to spend right now. I was interested in more info, especially about the Platts, but this is seeming more and more like a Pyramid scheme.
So much for open info sharing and the marketplace of ideas. Congrats, Matt. You just lost yourself a subscriber and one person's respect for you as a health researcher.
Yours in disapointment,
Greg
Frank said...
ReplyDelete@ Hans
good point. There are more RBTI testers and practioners out there but they their websites are not as Google friendly as they would like it to be.
And obviously they do not have a network behind them claiming "they are the only one who know what they are doing".
I found the friends of RBTI on a RBTI website. Testers, consultants and persons who are interested in RBTI can be registered. I have a feeling more persons will be registered:
www.rbti.info/Community/community.html
and there is a RBTI Yahoo Group for people that are interested in Yahoo.
ReplyDeletehealth.groups.yahoo.com/group/RBTI/
They do not have to work with Challen.
There is valuable information in this group.
This group is there since 2001 and maybe even longer
health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RBTI/
Sorry for the lack of puncuation/editing in my last post. And, oh yea-- corn oil?!? Now it was you, Matt, who taught me about malondialdehyde, wasnt it?!
ReplyDeleteI'm just giving you a hard time, sir. But i am interested in when corn oil is recommended in rbti.
Is vitamin E only used as as a "blood thinner" in rbti? http://www.rbti.info/Supplements/vitamin-e.html
Also do the rbti crowd ever test for blood levels of MDA, and supplement accordingly?
I cant thank you enough.
Sincerely,
Andrew
the RBTI Lime Water is Calcium Water made by Daily Manufacturing NOT lime juice in water.
ReplyDeleteThis calcium water is sometimes used to make the calcium more available to the body
Vitamin C helps, next to the calciums, to lower the pH to make sure that the body can take more minerals out of the food.
I have the lowering in especially the Urine Ph seen happening in my own numbers and other numbers as well.
Vitamin E thins the blood which enables more nutrition to reach the prostate gland and the amino acids necessary for that area can build healthy cells.
ReplyDeleteVitamin E is helpful for the heart if the UREA'S are not too high. The blood can carry more oxygen. When throwing out old cells, the blood will become thicker.
Wende, exactly, it's the same lime that is used in the construction of stucco and cement- calcium hydroxide.
ReplyDeleteIs a lower ph your goal; are you supplementing with vitamin C?
Is there anything wrong with overusing vitamin E in RBTI? As far as I know, it is impossible to OD vit E.
Do you know if RBTI recommends tests that measure oxidative stress?
Thanks for your response!
-Andrew
FTR, I am not arguing with Ream's agricultural experience. Basically Acres USA kicks ass, and re-mineralizing farmland is da shit (pardon my french[Matt can be a bad influence])!
ReplyDeleteBrock, to answer your question, High Brix farming would probably give you the most seductive tobacco experience of your life, or tomaccoo considering how cool it is.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHalf Navajo: Is your first name "Half"? On Facebook, your name is "Half Navajo," too. So I guess you filled in your first name as "Half" in your Facebook account, and I now wonder. From now on, I'll call you "Half", which means "Half a person."
ReplyDeleteMatt Stone replied...
"Stop calling him 'Half' now. He's t0ry."
We just bought 6.75 acres and are going to start our own farm. I don't know about indexes or numbers or whatever. But I do know that the healthiest foods are the ones that the insects avoid. Using pesticides and fungicides actually allows crap to survive that shouldn't. Soil and basic plant management should be all it takes. Any plant covered in insects or mold gets pulled and tossed, not treated. Yeah it means you have to plant more at the beginning but the stuff you produce is very dense, nutritious and delicious.
ReplyDeleteCheck us out at http://smallvillefarm.blogspot.com/ if'n ya like!
Blake
Got my lemonade in hand, slept like a rock last night, NO PEE PEE in the wee hours. So far so good.
ReplyDeleteLove you my son,
deb mom
@AndrewH
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely correct that RBTI and its believers rely heavily on faith and Christianity. But most scientists do rely on believes too. They did not always study their teachings but just assume they are correct, they simply wave off everything that does not match with it.
I went to a top-scientist who was dead sure that distilled water was poison. Drinking a liter off it would probably get you hospitalized, I drink much more then that.
Now to separate the facts from the rest of your story, I will start with a quote and after that answer:
--
remember that pure calcium hydroxide reads: "DANGER! HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED OR INHALED. CAUSES BURNS TO SKIN AND EYES.
CAUSES SEVERE IRRITATION TO RESPIRATORY TRACT."
--
Take it and you will experience the label is correct. According to Dr. Reams Limewater was one of the only sources of calcium oxide that is not poisonous to our body. You should delude it in water however, but I know some who have taken it undiluted, which made it taste really bad, but did not harm them.
--
They also recommend consuming diatomaceous earth-- which is a livestock dewormer and insecticide-- if saliva ph is "too high".
--
So it is used as a livestock dewormer and insecticide. Does that mean it will not work in humans? Some larves of insects are insects, which makes the link to the dewormer and insecticide part. If a person has a high pH, that person is more prone to have parasites.
"Onions are the richest source of vitamin C that Dr. Reams found. Onion soup is used if the body pH is less than 6.40"
ReplyDeleteFirst thing that popped in my mind is dolomite. Many take dolomite because it contains a lot of calcium, and obviously magnesium. Still, seems you look like you know your stuff, you will realize that the calcium is not absorbed in the body, only the magnesium is.
Now o get in to RBTI a bit more: Vitamin C in supplements comes in the form of ascorbic acid (the cheap vitamin C) and the more expensive ascorbate, Ascorbic acid is used in RBTI (likely in combination with calcium Lactate) to lower the urine pH. That is why one should not take that if the pH is already low.
The blood plasma has about 1.5 mg/dL according to wikipedia. Simple math shows 6 liters of blood contains 90 mg of vitamin C, making the RDA of 45 to 95 mg / day seem make sense, since low levels should have an absorption rate of 75-95 %.
Still even doctors prescribe 1000mg a day. Why? The textbooks say it is wrong, but the real-live cases frequently give a different view. But even then, there are some cases where it works, and others where it does not. Why?
Look for the pH’s, the differences in the two forms of vitamin C and you will find the answer.
ReplyDeleteIf the body is low in pH, it will not absorb the vitamin C from ascorbic acid, or make the pH even lower. RBTI looks for minerals and vitamins that are bound correctly in the body, and calls everything else pollution, since the body requires energy to get them in the blood, will not do anything and requires even more energy to through them out.
Scientist look at the minerals and vitamins in the food, no matter if we can put them to use. Some do a better job and look at the minerals and vitamins we took and compare it to the minerals and vitamins we peed out, but even then, we have to realize that the difference in what we took in and peed out is not the same as what is usable to the system.
Now, not to get to much side-tracked:
"Onions are the richest source of vitamin C that Dr. Reams found.”
So he did say that, but in relation to the chemistry in the body.
” Onion soup is used if the body pH is less than 6.40"
Because even if one has a low pH, the onion soup gives vitamin C that is available. Any true scientist would not judge about that until a complete study is done. I did look in to that, and could not find much proof pro or con. Anyone claiming that it can’t be right, without a scientific study is a believer. Believer in that it is not true. We all have our believes, let’s not question that, let’s try to come up with some proof.
“I am also curious; Is the information I dug up tonight outdated? Does RBTI still spread this misinformation (especially regarding vitamin C)”
No, not tonight, but it will be within a view days we will rewrite this part on RBTI.info. Your comment shows there are still way to many questions. You will find that RBTI does not change, but my explanation improves because of the amount of questions about certain topics.
I'm guessing Texas isn't on the path to Colorado...maybe on the way back??Although I wouldn't blame you for skipping Texas, it's been over 100 degrees for like 50 days straight!
ReplyDeleteWilliam, thanks for the response! Let me clarify my position a bit:
ReplyDelete1. When the caustic chemical compound, calcium oxide, is mixed with water it becomes calcium hydroxide (don't mix them too fast, unless you want a fiery explosion [which can be cool if that is the desired effect!]). Considering how cheap and effective dietary calcium carbonate is, or calcium citrate for that matter, I would really like to see why calcium oxide is recommended in rbti (even when someone is looking for a ph increase or whatever).
2. Diatomaceous earth has a jagged structure that rips through insect exoskeletons, and dehydrates them as well. When ingested it is harmless to mammals- and does eliminate parasites. It is silicon dioxide.
It has been theorized (and partially proven) that consuming silica as orthosilic acid has health benefits, but pure silicon dioxide, again, is used in construction, as opposed to nutrition. Unless a human does have parasites, I don't see any benefit to taking it regularly, as a dietary supplement.
You wrote: "RBTI looks for minerals and vitamins that are bound correctly in the body, and calls everything else pollution"
If this were truly the case, RBTIers would not be drinking calcium hydroxide, and scilica sand only to increase body ph (neither of these construction materials are essential for health, and are used primarily by the program to manipulate ph levels- as far as I know).
3. All humans (especially scientists) hold preconceived beliefs- this is an inescapable fact of life. Despite this, the burden of proof ALWAYS rests on the shoulders of the man making the claims, whether he is a christian fundamentalist, or a mad scientist.
I'd like to take this moment to name two of my favorite hardcore christian writers; Joel Salatin, and Ron Paul. I do this only to prove that I am very open to religious arguments, so long as they are based on reason.
"Because even if one has a low pH, the onion soup gives vitamin C that is available. Any true scientist would not judge about that until a complete study is done"
Wrong, a true scientist would have some information backing his claims before he makes them. And when I read outright lies like: "Vitamin C is manufactured by the human body when all required minerals are available." I get a little skeptical of other vitamin c related claims.
I am not a believer but a skeptic (as are all "true" scientists)
4. Man am I interested in how this (supposedly) works now! lol! I cant wait for further discourse-- maybe we all can get to the bottom of all this after all!
Sincerely,
-Andrew
No one should be offended by Greg's comment. Greg was providing some constructive criticism. He was expressing the reasons that he unsubscribed to Matt blog.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I recognize that the "tone" of Greg's writing might sound like he was "attacking" Matt and the RBTI followers. But that isn't true to me. This is the reason why I think Robert was angry with Greg.
FYI Andrew,
ReplyDelete"Sceptic" is a dirty word here. People think it means your a close-minded meanie party pooper naysayer who follows the 'religion of science". Facts, logic, burden of proof are just pesky details for the nitpicking nonbeliever.
Faith and willingnss to believe without evidence (other than a buncha subjective human accounts) are th ultimate virtues here. Not reason.
But it sure makes for some good armchair entertainment ..
Hell yes it's good entertainment! But I wouldn't go so far as to condemn the site as anti-science - I've learned tons following Matt.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if skeptic wont fly (which I doubt) I'll try "secular fundamentalist". ;)
Hey guys, I know noone was wondering, but, Organism as a Whole wasn't making fun of Half Navajo's name, don't be offended, he wasn't trying to offend, he was simply making a historical reference to a time when Navajos were considered subhuman under US law.
ReplyDeletelol.. sorry, i couldn't resist...
late night... stupid unnatural light patterns affecting hormones and dark humor... well you guys prolly know all about that.. my bad
@Andrew,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all: really good post, thank you for that.
But before I will try to answer, I do need to state one thing: you said that the pH’s are highly self regulating. The good RBTI teachers will teach that everything is controlled by the brain, including the pH’s, which contradicts your statement a bit. The blood pH must stay between 7.35 and 7.45, no matter what you eat. Your body can correct the blood pH in many ways, but one of the most common is to throw out more acidic urine when the blood is slightly acid and more alkaline urine while slightly alkaline.
Calcium is the key for controlling the pH. Now I would assume you know that pure calcium is alkaline, but please keep in mind that we look at what it does to the body; some forms will increase the pH, but some (phosphate and lactate) will decrease it, and others are about neutral.
RBTI teaches there are 7 types of calcium, but some say six…
The body would need all types on a daily basis, but most can and will be picked up out of the diet, and if in proper health, it may convert one to another according to some.
If the balance of the diet is wrong, the body needs more of certain type(s) and less of other(s). That causes the body to decide to shift its chemical balance, to compensate. RBTI is about doing a test and trying to understand why the numbers are the way they are.
If the urine pH is high, that has a reason. Higher urine pH usually means the friction in the intestine is reduced and foods stay in the colon longer (9 out of 10 people who have constipation are alkaline, the others likely use something). If you keep foods warm, and do not take out the nutrients fast enough, you may get parasites that will do that. The parasites are not the cause, but the effect. But that does not mean anyone who has one high urine pH should take K-min.
The germ is nothing, the soil is everything. You probably already know who said that.
But all live will alter its surroundings. Work on health, work on getting the numbers in the right range, and the body will start balancing itself. We call that the healing range. But if the numbers are way off, and the signs of parasites are obvious, then K-min is something I would rather take as the poisons the MD’s prescribe.
ReplyDeleteBasically you don’t see benefits of taking it unless a human does have parasites. Well, me neither.
RBTI is about a whole lot more as pH’s, and all numbers influence each other. But balancing just the pH’s is something that gets miraculous short term results. That is why a lot of RBTI-newcomers are so fascinated and overlook other parts.
As for proof that what RBTI teaches is true. For real proof you need real studies. Dr. Reams had his own laboratory in his younger years and did many studies. But since all his research from that was taken from him and he was also jailed a few times for practicing medicine without a license, he decided to stay as much out of the public view as he could, would not publish teachings, materials or whatever. But we know he said it worked. Is that proof enough for you?
I hope not.
For me personally the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Doing RBTI got me rid of my Crohn’s. I have had the pleasure to work with some, most of them improved drastically, the rest quit, or actually never started. None got worse.
I do not believe that should convince you, but I hope you do understand that it convinced me.
As for how everything (supposedly) works; you seem like someone with a keen mind and good observation. All my teachings have flaws, and I am not talking about small ones. Still if one does believe in it and reads it enough times, try convincing them there are flaws in it. I tried, got the same reaction as Columbus probably had when he tried to convince some that the earth was not flat.
I doubt if we stay on the topic about high Brix gardening.
As for being a secular fundamentalist: I like skeptic better, but am aware that has a negative impact with some readers.
To anon looking at paying almost $600.00 for a kit/consultation and anyone else interested. Yesterday I spent $306.52 (including shipping) for a complete kit from here pikeagri dot com/vmchk/Urine-/-pH-testing/View-all-products dot html (now I didn't buy extra water bottles or pipettes because I'm not sure yet if they're really necessary).
ReplyDeleteI referenced this site for a picture of a complete kit
advancedideals dot org/021_laboratory_equip dot html
And this site
thereamsdiet dot com/testequipment
which sells a kit for $389.00 (before shipping) which includes instruction video but they use a reagent to test pH and I wanted to get a pH meter. Before I ordered I checked RBTI dot info and in addition to extensive and easy to understand info on what you're testing they also include "how to test" for each number!
I would be interested to know EXACTLY what Challen's kit contains if Kelly or someone else who has bought from him wouldn't mind sharing the info.
I've been reading Matt's blog since 10/10 and have seen some major changes in my approach and attitude towards eating and don't really have any major health problems...weight issue from jacked up metabolism and adrenal fatigue from same lifetime of bad calorie restriction. So I am looking forward to seeing what Challen/RBTI has to say about my numbers after I get my kit.
"But balancing just the pH’s is something that gets miraculous short term results."
ReplyDeleteThis is quite interesting- and a fact (in an extreme example, a sufferer of heartburn may rave about the immediate relief supplied by just calcium carbonate).
Id like to know more about the "ideal" and disequilibrium ph levels and how they actually correlate with various ailments. Basically, I'm waiting on Matt's experience, and maybe testing (especially his idea of the real science going on), considering it is so complex and utterly impossible for me to acquire any research that isn't simply wrong, by modern standards.
But, my first impression is not good- especially as it seems that RBTI isn't doing well on the Scientology test (how much money the average member shells out for information/treatment based on quality of care given[although a follower would disagree]).
Does RBTI even admit that carcinogens and mutagens are potential causes of cancer? Or is it only the "not enough dead cells being flushed out" theory?
That may explain why a blood test measuring MDA is not encouraged within RBTI(although, I would hope that it is, considering how into testing they are)
I would love it if Matt tested for oxidative stress factors (like blood MDA) after the storm blows over (obviously if it isn't already part of the program).
I can hardly wait for more info! thanks,
-Andrew
>>> The germ is nothing, the soil is everything. You probably already know who said that.
ReplyDeleteO.K., I just had to jump in here. Pasteur never said that. His socalled deathbed withdrawal of his life work and recanting germ theory is proven as a total myth, and you should know it, since you seem like you're an intelligent person.
Germ-theory denialists are the wooest of pseudoscience woo, proven wrong time after time. Since they didn't have any historical genius heroes to back their ridiculousness up, they decided to make up a story attacking Pasteur's work "from his own lips!".
Germ theory denial is also one of the tools used by religious fundamentalists to suggest that AIDs HIV sufferers somehow "give themselves" AIDs, rather than it being transmitted. Another reason to avoid those sinful condoms too. The list goes on and on.
If R.B.T.I. is based of germ thoery denial, that's beyond shaky ground.
Most people who are "into" alternative health don't believe it means there are no such thing as germs, although I have seen that proposed. Instead, it means that if you (the soil) are healthy, and have a strong immune system, then germs have no chance with you.
ReplyDeleteI've seen that in my own house recently. My bff and her kid came and brought pneumonia with them. I totally *believe* in the existence of pneumonia germs :). But they were very, very sick the whole two weeks they were here, relying on antibiotics and other big pharm beds, eating nasty industrial foods, etc. They're still sick, two weeks after leaving. We, on the other hand, were sick about a day each, and we took nothing but a few herbs and used some eucalyptus oil, plus made sure to eat well (at least in my current understanding). The only one who was sick longer was my youngest, who definitely has the weakest immune system (and it's not me thanks to the real food movement and Matt Stone).
According to traditional germ theory, it was a virulent strain and should have taken us all out.
I think you're misinterpreting what most people (or at least I) intend when they say they don't believe in the germ theory. But, maybe I'm wrong. I'll leave OaaW to interpret it all for us.
As an agronomist that sounds fishy!
ReplyDeleteSo I measured a few of my vegetables with the refractometer. The Brix reading was POOR for everything I tested, except the organic carrots (8.5) and the organic oranges (13), which fell between Average and Good. And these are vegetables from Whole Foods (cukes, cabbage, were local). Yes, very disappointing. But I'm eager to do some more investigation. (The carrots and oranges were 365 organic brand). Especially at the farmers market and CSA. I haven't tested all of the summer melons I have yet, that's for tomorrow. This is quite eye-opening. Is there a more extensive Brix list anywhere? I have cherry tomatoes, other fruits and veggies that aren't on this list.
ReplyDeleteSorry peeps, I'm with Gregola. I'll stick to the open-minded health bloggers who are spreading the love WITHOUT the ever-heightening multi levels of secrecy and single-person authority (which is like the ANTITHESIS of everything I loved about 180) on TOP of heaps of unintelligible information.
ReplyDeleteIf Guyenet or someone else was telling me that in crowd buddy housecalls, paying out the nose to one guy in the boonies and YOU HAVE TO SEE IT TO BELIEVE IT were the only ways to really ""get"" what they were saying, bet yo britches I'd be doing the same thing with them.
Been fun while it lasted, hombres. Gunna check back in a few months to see if this place has opened up again.
@Skeptical issue- no one has said anything about it not being OK to be skeptical. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Be skeptical. I'm skeptical. Most of us here are skeptical. That doesn't mean we should just dismiss RBTI without checking it out. How is what you're doing working out for you?
ReplyDelete@AndrewH- good questions and you brought up some good points. Carry on. Though the discrepancies you brought up further drives home the point AS was making. Be careful what you read out there on other RBTI web sites and what you hear from other RBTI practitioners. Just my opinion but like her I don't know that I would trust any RBTI info that didn't come from Reams or Challen. Even William (of rbti.info) admitted that his info as well as his understanding isn't without flaws and is a work in progress. But kudos to him for being open to correcting mistakes.
I just borrowed that Reams book from her because those excerpts made me want to read the rest of it. It is a fascinating read so far. I would recommend it to anyone who wants know the real RBTI story.
Greg and crew.
ReplyDeleteI started the RBTI group for people who were working with Challen so that we could share experiences with each other. This I started around 3 months ago. I then started a group called RBTI info which was for people who were not working with Challen and had question about RBTI that wanted advice or help.
Matt had no input in either of these groups and still has no input into either of them.
I have thought about consolidating the groups but in order to do that I need to ask the original people that I invited to the group if they are OK with that as they joined believing it would be only for people working with Challen.
It has not been my intention to be elitist but people will think what they will and this is OK with me. I don't get too caught up in what others think of me it's way too stressful.
So I will ponder on this and apologize to anyone who is offended.
That's fine, pipparoni. I was not offended with any of your posts.
ReplyDeleteNo one had accused any RBTI'er of being an "elitist." Not even Greg. Read Greg post in detail. Greg didn't say that you or Matt want RBTI to be a "secret."
Don't take their rejections of RBTI personally. Maybe they don't have the time or money to seriously consider RBTI? Maybe they are already healthy so they don't consider RBTI to be a serious undertaking? Greg and the others who have left this blog are probably overloaded with information anyway, and they don't have the time to explore RBTI in detail and instead rely on their perception of Ream's and Challen's credibility. There are a lot of circumstantial factors involved, but we often have a habit of neglecting them.
Hi all, I'm Ryan Platte from the video. Thanks so much, Matt. It was fun talking and showing you around.
ReplyDeleteI was public-schooled and annoying at age 10. :-) I also didn't know how to do half the things Raphael's doing. Frankly improvement with RBTI is helping both him and me with our social skills.
Please write to me at ryan@burningbushgardens.com if you'd like to talk with me. I am on some of the various RBTI forums but am too busy to check them much. There was no collusion or pyramid scheme that I'm aware of.
@Obi
ReplyDeleteCmon, you know how to read subtext.
watchin this unfold- every time someone asks too many questions, asks ones that can't be answered, xpresses doubts or brings up red flag items etc, there's a chorus of "Why you gotta dismiss RBTI???" It's almost a automatic jump. Also?: namecalling of haters, whiners, masterdebators, unbelievers, close-minded, blad de blah. Actual words used, troo fax.
Passive-aggressive poetry about the joys of openmindedness is a really good indirect way to do this too ;P
Also?: theres this underhanded thing (you kinda just did it, don't think you realize it tho) that if someone unwell doubts RBTI or hesitates they can or might just stay sick and or die thanks to their doubts.
Silly questioners with your pesky details, you'll never know the true salvation of RBTI because science doesn't know everything and you were too busy asking for facts. Caution with your health and moolah? Silly rabbits!! /subtext
not everyone has the writin chops or time to sandwich tough Q's between adoring on the Awesomeness of Matt (tho he is way awesome thats why we're here) and bigtime excitement for RBTI. May make it go down easier for those on the bandwagon right now, sure. but questions and worries sure heck aren't the same as hollering for dismissls.
in fact- where be the torches'n pitchforks of the RBTI Dismissal Mob? Looks a vocal majority of us in the gallery tossing pork, buying kits, calling Challen, setting up to meet Mippa (Pippatt?....Brangelina of Brixometers?) on their trip and so. Why get all Le Bristle! at the minority hard sceptical questions? much less the fuzzy head-scratching ones. People wanta know, not dismiss.
Try an give undecided wondering people more than a pointy fencepost to sit on, my jedi master friend.
My above criticism has nothing personal to do with pipparoni. I understand her concerns are shared by a lot of other members here.
ReplyDeleteRyan - thanks for letting us see your farm. My question is, what is the number one thing to do (as a home gardener) to increase Brix? Soft rock phosphate, or something else? I'm looking for an easy, general first step, without testing soil or getting anal - just one thing to go out and do this weekend. What would be the second?
ReplyDeleteI think you said you were surprised your Brix wasn't higher. Can you elaborate?
I'd say Raphael has passion about what you're doing. Which is unusual to see in a kid that age about anything other than electronic stimulation. That's why it's a bit freaky :). I'm happy to see it though.
I can email if you'd rather, but I'm guessing more than one person would be interesting in the answers.
Vikki, thanks- good comments. And I always thought the quote read "the germ is nothing, the TERRAIN is everything" which is not exactly a refutation of his work; like you said it's a myth, as far as I know.
ReplyDeleteRyan Platte or any informed RBTI follower, if I may list a few of my questions, and add another relating to farming methods:
1. Are carcinogenic and mutagenic substances to be avoided by rbti or linked with cancer in rbti theory?
2. Does rbti continue to claim that humans are capable of creating vitamin c endogenously?
3. (new question) Does High Brix farming recognize mycorrhizal fungi and attempt to promote it's growth in the soil?
Thanks,
-Andrew
Oh, yea! If you guys want to check out a really cool agricultural process that mimics nature and is totally backed by sound science, check this out:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.holisticmanagement.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=9
... I almost forgot to plug Allan Savory- lol!
-Andrew
@Andrew
ReplyDeleteSorry, your example does not fly. Heartburn is not related to the pH’s, more to the (distilled) water intake . But please also note that I included the “short term” before the results. Balancing the pH’s will alter the amount of nutrients that can be absorbed. And since most of us (including me), have a really hard time figuring out how they feel on an absolute scale, most (like me) compare it to the way they felt before. A really bad example is that most survivors of the WOII concentration camps had their happiest moments there. Not because they were truly happy, but live was so terrible, having a moment that was not really bad felt as absolute happiness.
Fixing the pH’s is the thing that can give a sort of rush, but that will go away. If the other things are not corrected, the results may be limited to short term.
You shared with us:
“But, my first impression is not good- especially as it seems that RBTI isn't doing well on the Scientology test”
Thank you for sharing, but please do understand that most here do not see that as proof. And without being sure that the RBTI review was done by Reams or Challen, we can’t be sure if it really was RBTI ;-)
As far as your question: Does RBTI even admit that carcinogens and mutagens are potential causes of cancer?
Are what we call carcinogens and mutagens a cause or an effect. I believe it is an effect, you believe it is a cause. As for blood tests not being encouraged. It simply is not standard RBTI testing, more expensive and obviously RBTI followers claim that the RBTI test is enough. But if any client does want to spend the money on it, I would be most interested to see them. Before I did RBTI I had been rebalancing my chemistry based on a weekly blood test, the results were far from impressive. Blood test are for MD’s, but why not work together? I’d be the first in line to share and learn with anyone who is open minded.
@Obi: Good post. But did you read the lessons of Challen? They contain flaws. I recently got his level 3 as a gift after waiting a week or 4 to the shipping cost from Challen. It contains just 57 pages in a large font, but also about 80 or so pages of websites etc. and does cost $145,- excl shipping.
ReplyDeleteThe book by Dr. Reams (Choose Life or Death, CLOD for short), also contains mistakes.
So instead of being skeptical about any sources but from Dr. Reams and Challen, I believe you will understand things better if you are skeptical all the way. Question everything, but try to stay open minded. If someone can’t explain it, give him a second chance to do a better job. If they still can’t or are just not willing to: find someone who can.
And your statement about me is just perfect. But instead of flaws in my understanding, I see it as gaps, huge ones. Reason they are in there, is because only few in RBTI have the knowledge to fill them, and none I talked to are willing to share. Others simply do not see the gaps. But try to find one MD without gaps in their understanding. Even with gaps, much good can be done.
Anyone who worked with me knows that I focus on the understanding of the client, not just give them a diet or supplement.
@ Vicky
ReplyDeleteWhat I believe is that we cannot exist without germs, funguses and yeasts. We all have and need Candida and many other things. But the ‘soil’, what we put in our body determents what is flourishing and what not. If you have something that is flourishing, you get in to trouble. Let’s say it is fungus. Reason for that overgrowth of the fungus is that the foods (soil) for it are better as it should be. That can and most likely will have two causes: The diet is not perfect. And not everything is picked up from the foods. So what is left, is the perfect soil for the fungus. Solution seems simpler as it is: change the diet. Even though that will help, the fungus will change the chemistry, causing the body to be incapable in absorbing the right nutrients, and still providing them with a soil they can live from.
But preventing is a whole other thing. Don’t provide the soil, and the germ (or fungus in my example) is nothing. It will be there, but there will not be overgrowth causing problems.
Now back on the topic. High Brix gardening is according to my teachings all about providing minerals in the soil, but more importantly about getting the life back in the soil. Put ‘dead‘ minerals in there and you will have a short term solution, bigger yields, but lower Brix and minerals. Plants with low Brix are not only less tasteful, but also rot. That last part will make them easier to handle for the clean-up crew (bugs, pests, …). So what do we need? Pesticides.
Provide the right soil for the germ, and there will be no stopping it.
If there is no overgrowth, and you do not provide the soil, the germ will be nothing.
I'll have a stab at answering AndrewH's questions -- I will not be around very much and can't spend the day peering into my phone's browser.
ReplyDelete1. Are carcinogenic and mutagenic substances to be avoided by rbti or linked with cancer in rbti theory?
What I understand so far I would summarize as "there's a LOT more that can be done to reduce susceptibility to many things than most people are aware". I personally still avoid carcinogenic and mutagenic substances!
2. Does rbti continue to claim that humans are capable of creating vitamin c endogenously?
Reams said it, he was brilliant, and was right on several other key points that were counter to the accepted models in the scientific community. Since he puts the "R" in "RBTI", yes, "RBTI continues to claim" that.
It only happens under ideal conditions, so it's quite possible that scientific observation couldn't observe it without other preconditions in place.
3. (new question) Does High Brix farming recognize mycorrhizal fungi and attempt to promote it's growth in the soil?
"High Brix farming" is simply the pursuit of high Brix, and yes, many folks including Thomas use mycorrhizal fungi. It's not something I've gotten to yet and I know it would help me. I mentioned it to Matt when we were talking.
But as Jon Frank says, "I won't argue with Brix." The idea is to get healthy, well-mineralized plants and the means are not a matter of doctrine. There are folks in the Albrecht school who get fantastic results -- Gary Zimmer even points to some chemical-heavy no-till farmers who accidentally get their mineral energy right with amazing results!
Lorelei aka Hawaiigirl said...
Ryan - thanks for letting us see your farm. My question is, what is the number one thing to do (as a home gardener) to increase Brix? Soft rock phosphate, or something else? I'm looking for an easy, general first step, without testing soil or getting anal - just one thing to go out and do this weekend. What would be the second?
Soft rock phosphate at 2000 lb/acre (acre is 43,560 sq ft) and NON-MAGNESIUM high-calcium lime at 1000 lb/acre are two frequent additions. Spraying with molasses is another one. Beyond that (and even sometimes within!) it's very possible to throw off the mineral balance and make it harder on the plants! It's all about improving the mineral availability, which is about balance as much as it is supply.
OK, I've got to move on, already this is exceeding the time I have available with everything we have going on. Please email me at ryan@burningbushgardens.com with further questions, and everyone be patient and realize that RBTI takes time and patience to grok.
@Carles- LOL I wasn't being passive-aggressive with my poetry man I was trying to get laid! :p (it's an inside joke)
ReplyDeleteBut seriously points taken. In general I think that some people have mistaken the defensive stance Moi took with people (which I didn't agree with either) as the official RBTI stance here which is unfair. That said- I could have missed it so please point it out to me if I'm wrong but I don't recall Mippa or Pippatt or anyone else criticizing or namecalling anyone with valid questions. I've only seen that kind of bickering about comments of followers being stupid to be so gullible to RBTI's quackery.
I just don't get what the big deal is. If a person doesn't want to experiment with RBTI for whatever reason then don't. If people want to ask questions fine ask questions. But why comment just to mock it and the people who do want to find out more about it and experiment? Aren't we all grownups here? Maybe not. Don't they have anything better to do? Probably not. I know some people are just negative and need to spew it everywhere they go because I guess misery loves company as they say. I'm not referring to you or anyone in particular. Just in general. Peace.
AndrewH-
ReplyDeleteHaha. Yes. There is no end to things that are not backed up by science whatsoever. Like the belief that hominy is a good source of potassium for example.
A line I've been using lately is that if it wasn't for the results I'm seeing people have with this, I would be 100% convinced that RBTI was total bullshit. It's not though, which is the craziest part about it.
Ryan,
ReplyDeleteYour garden is beautiful. :) Perhaps I will feel well enough to give gardening a try next year.
Your son is precious. :) It is clear that you invest yourself in him.
Betty
@William- nothing but respect for you man and your points are well taken. To be clear I wasn't suggesting that Reams and Challen are 100% correct about everything. What I meant was unless you know for sure what you are reading came from Reams or Challen you can't know if it is someone else's version or interpretation of the official RBTI. I understand that no one not even Reams himself was 100% accurate about everything in his theories. I get what you mean by gaps. As there are in all theories no doubt there are plenty in his theories and Challen's. But I'm all for working together to fill in the gaps. Peace.
ReplyDeleteObi,
ReplyDeleteOkay, now that was funny!! But yeah, no, still not gonna happen - but nice try lol! : )
You know I love ya. And thank you for the poetry : )
I'm still laughing at Mippa and Pippat. You guys are funny !!! =)
ReplyDeleteSkepticism-
ReplyDeleteAs I said in an email to someone a few weeks ago, if you are NOT skeptical about RBTI, then you are probably mentally retarded to some degree. There's really nothing in the recipe that shouldn't raise red flags, spook you, raise the hairs on the back of your neck, make you laugh with its outlandishness, make you cringe with its overt inaccuracies, and so forth.
Challen's materials on the subject are an assault on the English language, and would distinguish any interest in it one could muster.
When talking to Challen, you may find him thinking that agave is a zero-calorie sweetener, hear him argue that a vegan is someone who eats only raw foods, and be told that high-fructose corn syrup is a good food that does no harm.
My favorite passage of his is about how lack of sleep is incapable of harming a human. Other than being able to kill someone, cause severe psychological problems, and give them metabolic syndrome this statement is 100% accurate haha!
Once again, none of these ridiculous claims or beliefs mean that what Reams did and the protocols he created were ineffective. His problem was never inability to get results. His problem was inability to communicate how he was doing what he was doing. This seems to be perpetuated through Challen. As far as I'm concerned, no information is better than wrong information. Perhaps that's why I don't get too into it. There's not much of a point. No one really understands this.
The only thing that needs to be understood is:
1) Patterns in body chemistry can be identified and linked with various forms of degeneration and disease.
2) There is a protocol one can follow that eliminate these patterns, and it is reasonable to expect that when your chemistry comes out of a pattern associated with your health problem, that health problem should begin to reverse itself - or go away completely.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteExactly!
Betty
Ryan Platte wrote:
ReplyDelete2. Does rbti continue to claim that humans are capable of creating vitamin c endogenously? -AndrewH
"Reams said it, he was brilliant, and was right on several other key points that were counter to the accepted models in the scientific community. Since he puts the "R" in "RBTI", yes, "RBTI continues to claim" that."
It only happens under ideal conditions, so it's quite possible that scientific observation couldn't observe it without other preconditions in place.
Ryan,
I was think the same thing there. Thank you for your comments and for taking out time to do so. Very informative and very appreciated! And I agree with Betty, your son is amazing! : )
Pyramid Scheme-
ReplyDeleteI wish RBTI was something that general information could achieve - but the program requires a lot of individuation and fine-tuning. Audio, video, and books cannot achieve this. It takes working with a professional and extensive Q and A to figure out all the ins and outs of it. If you have a test kit, the program is very cheap. If RBTI continues to impress I'd like to make an effort to get alternative health practitoners all over the globe to offer testing. That way a curious person could go get their first test for $25-$50 or something and be off and running with the program to see how it can perform for them. I will be attempting to compile a list of testers nationwide willing to "share" their test kit - avoiding that $300-400 initial hit of ordering a kit.
I didn't realize that Pip didn't allow just anyone into the group I linked to in the post. If you have a problem with exclusivity of information take it up with her. Evidently I'm not quite close enough to fuse my name with hers just yet - although Mippa has a great sound to it.
But I am working on an eBook/audio series type of thing that should be available by late September I hope, and will describe in detail how to follow some of the general guidelines of the program. The basics that apply to everyone. Following only a few "rules" is enough for most people to reap rewards.
At the end of the day I'm not that interested in whether onions have the highest amount of vitamin C or not. I'm interested in being able to steer people towards information that they can follow to prevent and overcome health problems. I wish RBTI was just some bogus hoo-ha, but my first impression of it is that it is the most effective and reliable thing I've seen thus far.
Germ theory-
ReplyDeleteI have never endorsed the germ theory in its entirety, so why start now?
All I know is that I used to get infections, colds, and flus all the time. Several times per year. Now I get none. And I'm about the least germ-phobic, most unsanitary bastard in North America.
The people I know who get sick most often carry a bottle of hand sanitizer with them everywhere they go. Fail. You can run from germs, but you can't hide. Exposure is not the whole story.
And who cares what Pasteur said when Claude Bernard (Mr. Milieu interior), Antoine Bechamp, Robert McCarrison, Weston A. Price, and others disproved the simple version of the germ theory? I don't. The germ theory in its strictest sense has been proven false. It's just that most people haven't come across the information that disproves it - or at the very least exterminated the overly-simplified version of it.
So, Matt...I've seen the question several times, but not the answer. How is body temp reacting to RBTI? While experiencing all this healing, are people getting hot?
ReplyDelete~desert dweller
Hi, Ryan!
ReplyDeleteI know you said that you won't be back much, but I felt I owed you an apology and since my comment was public, the apology should be too.
It was insensitive of me to comment on the behavior of your son who is obvioulsy bright, articulate and passionate. Plus, homeschooling gets enough bashing by the general public. Those within the community should be more supportive of each other.
I was silly to react to something that irritates me personally in homeshcool gatherings. It really is just an archaic hold over from the "children should be seen and not heard" era that allows it to bother me when the kids take over the show and start "schooling" the adults.
Deep in my heart I love to see children who are willing to speak about what is on their minds, and are not intimidated by their audience. I know that ultimately we really need to teach our children to be excellent communicators, and you are obviously doing just that.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteYou freakin' rock!! It's a thing of pure "awesomeness" how you put us all neatly in our places like that - keeping what matters most in perspective - results. It just works!!
"At the end of the day I'm not that interested in whether onions have the highest amount of vitamin C or not. I'm interested in being able to steer people towards information that they can follow to prevent and overcome health problems. I wish RBTI was just some bogus hoo-ha, but my first impression of it is that it is the most effective and reliable thing I've seen thus far."
I can't wait for the eBook/audio series. Exactly what I've been looking forward to : )
Anon,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your follow up comment regarding Ryan's son.
I was raised by the thought "children should be seen and not heard."
We were not to be heard even in the privacy of our home, unless spoken to first. This has hindered me greatly.
Odd now, my Dad wants to talk freely with me. It is awkward for me to say the least.
Anon @ temp,
I can't speak for RBTI as a whole.
I can say for myself, when my sugar is up I am much warmer. However, I am in the early process of RBTI, and my sugar (brix) can drop without warning. :(
Then, I am cold again.
Anon who apologized - sweet of you to apologize instead of getting defensive like so many would.
ReplyDeleteI have to admit my own kids (who are homeschooled) were amazed by Raphael's willingness to share all he knew. They have this idea that letting others know just how much they know and how smart they are is rude. I'm still trying to explain context to them.
Matt - AS is right, you rock at cutting thru the crap. I know I say it all the time, but it amazes me how you can stay focused. Got anybody in on da Big Island for me?
Honeydew melon from Pappas Family Farms in CA measured 16 Brix, the only excellent quality range measurement I've taken so far. On the other hand a watermelon from Starbrite Farms in NJ (organic) only measured 6. Really bad. This is fun but discouraging.
ReplyDeleteMatt, with Challen, how do you know what to ignore and what to take seriously? Is it the difference between theory and practice? For instance, with the hominy, do you or others find that adding it to your diet seems to get a positive result, whatever the theory behind it?
ReplyDeleteThe WAPF journal had a great article with the exact same title as this post in 2005: http://www.westonaprice.org/farm-a-ranch/nutrient-dense-food-high-brix-farming-gardening.
ReplyDeletemake that 2004, Winter issue.
ReplyDeleteHey Matt nice to see you pip in finally.I was worried after watching that garden video that the next pic I see of you would be in overalls with a straw hanging out your mouth and a vegetable the size of a football in your hand.After reading some of your new posts I am back to my faith that you mean best for all.
ReplyDeleteAs for people wanting to buy the equipment,wait what!!??!?!?!$600.00 dollars???Are you freaking kidding me.Who the hell pointed the the Pike labs website and who was dumb enough to buy test kits from them???
refractometer $45.00
http://www.aquariumguys.com/almo-sybon-refractometer.html?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c1209_a_7c7276_a_7cAL0001
PH strips $13.00
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=TP-7056
Conductivity meter $15.00
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Conductivity+Meter&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=cv6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivnsfd&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1592&bih=1029&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=10114537997735201645&sa=X&ei=ZmRZTvi6E8fE0AH5yOS-DA&ved=0CIcBEPMCMAE
Urea test kit....fishtank stuff around $10.00
http://www.petsolutions.com/storefront/product-view.ep?pID=AquariumPharmaceuticalsTestKits&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=comparison&utm_term=17100128&utm_campaign=AquariumPharmaceuticalsTestKits
Thats around $100.00 dollars total.
As for me,I never felt healthier in yrs and yrs.Last night I went out with my 77 yr old friend drinking.Today we both had slight hangovers that are both gone.He claims its apple cider vinegar and I claim baking soda now. :) He only eats raisin bran soaked over night in cranberry juice(all day long I come to find)and drinks ACV in cranberry juice to cut.I went with him today to a local Costco where he first purchased a 50in LCD screen and then hit on a pretty sexy 65yr old....got her number....danced with her in the aisles...told her he wanted to se her up...got the "your going way too quick here"speech...and then exchanged numbers and parted ways.LOL then he tells me we should go to a strip joint before the NYC hurricane hits.I doubt he was joking as he is a randy old man but I declined since I wanna live till monday.PH I believe is super important in the RBTI swing of things and me and my friend argued all day that its not PH based health LOL :)
Hmm, I'm still unconvinced of RBTI's efficacy and potential for long-term benefits. It's clear there is a reliable 'change' that can happen to people, but does it last, and remain a benefit? My doubt is mostly based on Helen's testimonials (I think her name was Helen). We haven't heard from her in a long time, though.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I'm happy that there are so many here who are trying out Challen's methods. With so many people experimenting, a more reliable picture of RBTI's claims will hopefully appear. Matt's enthusiasm hasn't got me convinced yet. Not that I don't appreciate the fact that he's brought this subject to the forefront. I admit I've been addicted to this blog since July. But enthusiasm just doesn't mean anything at this juncture.
@ Wolfstriked, be careful this weekend! It would be a serious loss if you didn't make it til Monday! And not just because you're another source of (rather crazy) data in this experiment! :-) But seriously, take care of yourself and do whatever it is that people do in a large city with an unprecedented storm heading towards them (and hopefully all the media on this is hyped up).
@SJ - I've been wondering the same thing myself - are there any records covering 20 years or more showing long-term benefit. William noted above that some of his clients didn't stay the course - I have had the pleasure to work with some, most of them improved drastically, the rest quit, or actually never started. None got worse.
ReplyDeleteFor checking what Irene is up to, I recommend this site --
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/27/hurricane-irene-not-packing-much-of-a-punch/
Hello you crazy peoples!
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if the experienced RBTIers could answer some questions that I know people have already asked but I never saw any complete answers for. One, I was going to ask how different foods affected the numbers. If the no foods all affect the numbers differently, I imagine it would be better for one to eat very limited amounts of all the no foods than to eat a lot of just one. Or I guess it could be worse the other way too???? confusing.
Also, I was going to re-ask the question I had concerning the amount of any specific no-no food ingested. Logically, I'd have to think that eating a large rack of pork ribs would have a much more profound effect on the numbers and cause greater energy loss than say, a bite of bacon.
Here's my take y'all:
ReplyDeleteIt makes sense to me that if body chemistry is different from person to person, as is their state of health, that some reliable patterns linking the two might demonstrate themselves. It seems plausible to me that someone who has spent time identifying what patterns tend to be associated with what ailments would develop some predictive power.
The big questions in my mind, and this is precisely what Matt and others are investigating, is: do the suggested interventions work to shift body chemistry to the alleged ideal range, and if so, does this 'ideal range' actually generate health improvements? Everything else is inconsequential.
Yeah, the stuff if crazy, and yeah, people have every reason to be skeptical, even dismissive of it. Groovy. But in my mind, what's the alternative? Keep following WAPF guidelines, or paleo, or optimal diet, or whatever? Seems like it works for some, but not everyone. I agree with Matt- the folks I see at the WAPF conference didn't all look astoundingly healthy. Maybe some other approach is in order.
It's tricky for me to implement some of the suggestions, in part because in Challen's world, food quality is inconsequential, but I continue to have ecological, social and spiritual reasons to buy and eat the food I do. So when I have a farmer I know and respect who can hook me up with some sweet ass sausage, it's too bad that RBTI says no. Or when getting supermarket skim milk is cool, but farmer's market taters aren't, I don't know what to do with that.
That's why I dig this high brix gardening stuff- here's a possible way to reconcile these two worlds,and wrap my head around RBTI's possible efficacy. Hell, maybe its just that he 'no' foods, the enervating foods, are the ones most sensitive to shitty growing conditions, and we have to work with the foods least sensitive to industrial practices.
Whatever. The take away for me is: is this stuff effective, and if so, can we fine tune it and share widely the method for understanding the patterns? Then we can test broadly, maybe bring lots more folks into the fold, and find the gaps, when the interventions don't work or when the don't produce the desired effects, and then keep exploring. That's a story that makes sense to me anyway.
Matt is right, the refractometer is an excellent tool just by itself. I've been measuring my brix/sugar all day, and can really see what I'm doing reflected in the reading. It is always low 2.5 in the morning and starts rising. By 11 I'm usually at 3.5. If it starts getting too high, I get more strict about drinking the water and it keeps it in check. (Yesterday I didn't drink water and I was up to 5 by 5pm.) All on top of diet, of course. But it is satisfying to see the relationship, good feedback.
ReplyDeleteAlso, to commenter above: here's a link to a short book, available on that webpage, about Brix, which includes several other Brix fruit and vegetable charts: crossroads.ws/ brixbook/ BBook. htm
ReplyDeleteAnd Allan Savory- yeah! Right on. Though according to 'Meat, A Benign Extravagance,' the promise and potential of grass farming, at least as it relates to carbon sequestration, has not (yet) been fully and irrefutably established. Still possible, and I think ten thousand farmers ought to experiment with it, but some of the bolder claims by its advocates aren't backed up.
Erika opened up a new group on Facebook for peeps that have questions on RBTI.
ReplyDeleteJust search for RBTI and you'll find it
http://www.facebook.com/groups/207618959279668/
ReplyDeleteThat should be the link to the RBTI group on Facebook.
Mat,
ReplyDeleteAwesome post as usual. Couple months back I was on a quest to learn how to create ideal soil for high Brix gardening. I found a company that would do a soil test and give you a prescription for your soil (mentioned in the video), I found a kit (mentioned in your blog text), I found a high Brix fertilizer maker (Black Lake Organic), and I found a seminar (by Dan Kittredge at www.remineralize.org), but what I really wanted was just a book that explains the "ideal equation" for soil and why it works. As usual, Reams himself was not very intelligible. However, I finally I ran across an ebook titled "The Ideal Soil: A Handbook for the New Agriculture" by Michael Astere, which is da bomb!
http://www.soilminerals.com/index.htm
I hate to sound like I'm promoting this guy's book - I have no affiliation what-so-ever - but this book was a real breath of fresh air for me and a wealth of information, both theory and practice. People can read the Intro and first chapter for free at the above website. I can tell you that later chapters dig into A LOT of detail about analyzing and amending soil a la Reams, but there's also a lot that goes beyond Reams based on modern knowledge of soil micro-organisms.
BTW, here's a thought-provoking tid-bit I ran across later in the book. It seems to suggest soil mineral depletion is natural and inevitable between ice ages, and it's not just a man-made tragedy.
"The big buzz on glacial rock dust began with the publication of John Hamaker’s The Survival of Civilization in 1982. Hamaker argued that the last time the planet’s soils had a good dose of fresh minerals was when the glaciers melted at the end of the last ice age around 10,000 years ago and deposited the loads of boulders, gravel, and fine rock dust that they had picked up while moving toward the equator from polar regions. The popularity of glacial rock dust no doubt also owes a lot to Dr. Robert McCarrison’s 1921 book Studies in Deficiency Diseases, where he described the long-lived and healthy people of the Hunza valley in the Himalayas. Their fields and gardens were irrigated from mountain streams running off of glaciers, and the water was milky-colored from the amount of rock dust suspended in it."
I wonder if the paleo crowd knows about this - they seem quick to blame everything on agriculture.
Matt said,
ReplyDelete"As I said in an email to someone a few weeks ago, if you are NOT skeptical about RBTI, then you are probably mentally retarded to some degree."
Intellectual rigor and honesty in all things would require that you throw out almost everything you know. Most people are perfectly ok with conflicting and/or unsubstantiated beliefs depending on context. Like I said before, the search for truth requires openness to all things combined with a highly discriminating mind. If you can do this, truth eventually sorts itself out and makes itself apparent to you.
I used H.P. Lovecraft as my example in the previous blog post... a man that was definitely racist and screwed up in his worldview. Yet the profundity of the first paragraph of Call of Cthulhu captivated me. I will quote it here, because ironically, it pertains to the subject at hand:
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
That's a segue into his own sort of dark sci-fi, but the description of what the human mind actually knows is very apt.
Rob A. said,
ReplyDelete"That's why I dig this high brix gardening stuff- here's a possible way to reconcile these two worlds,and wrap my head around RBTI's possible efficacy. Hell, maybe its just that he 'no' foods, the enervating foods, are the ones most sensitive to shitty growing conditions, and we have to work with the foods least sensitive to industrial practices.
Whatever. The take away for me is: is this stuff effective, and if so, can we fine tune it and share widely the method for understanding the patterns? Then we can test broadly, maybe bring lots more folks into the fold, and find the gaps, when the interventions don't work or when the don't produce the desired effects, and then keep exploring. That's a story that makes sense to me anyway."
I would think that with enough 180 followers following and experimenting with RBTI, we'd be able to collect some conclusive data. Maybe it's that pork always affects the numbers. Or maybe the diet and quality do matter. Maybe chocolate itself is harmful, or maybe it's just junk like soy lecithin (I'll bet it's the chocolate though).
I would love to see more 180 peeps working together to explore and analyze things in a conclusive way. I'm planning to get a test kit soon. I would like to see if RBTI can clear up a lingering complaint I have since my crazy orthorexic low-carb days ended a year and a half ago.
Do you have email? Are you willing to share it? I would like to contact you.
@Andrew on others
ReplyDeleteDiatomaceous earth is not only used to get rid of parasites, but also for heavy metal toxicity with its ability to bound with them. It is probably the safest chelation therapy available.
There are different type of DE and only food grade should be used; it is NOT the same as the pesticide, pool-cleaning DE.
This is what I have been put on for the last 3 years by Kaayla Daniel, my nutritionist and vice-president of WAPF. My hair testing every 3 months clearly show that the product chelate mercury, lead and aluminum I had in my body.
Taking such mineral rich clay that detoxify and remineralize at the same time is not an idea coming solely from RBTI; numerous traditional people and animals eat small quantities of clay so it can be argue that they know of its benefit.
I would recommend your read the excellent article of the WAPF on the matter
http://www.westonaprice.org/environmental-toxins/mad-as-a-hatter
All,
ReplyDeleteIt seems clear that most of the disagreements here are really just word games. If "RBTI" means "What the majority of RBTI practioners claim and do" then RBTI is quackery. If instead it means "What Challen Waycoff does, but not what he claims" then it's meritorious. (Albeit only because I believe Matt when he says so.)
So if I were to say "RBTI is quackery," thinking of the first definition, I would be right, but if you heard it and thought I was using the second definition you might disagree. The problem is that you would then be unlikely to listen to points about how, say, Challen is super wrong about half the stuff he says.
By the same token, if "germ theory" means "level of disease is directly proportional to level of germ exposuer" then you could say that the germ theory is false. But that would be unbelievably misleading, since some people will hear you and think that you're saying disease is not caused by germs. Which, by the way, it is.
Like I semi-expected, my brown rice = better sleep only lasted about 2 weeks. now my insomnia is just as bad as before. So, I did more searching and found that one cause for insomnia is a liver dysfunction. I've had hypoglycemia problems since i was 10+, and although it greatly improved since RRARFing, I still have minor issues. Supposedly, hypoglycemia is caused by a liver dysfunction, so, I've started drinking distilled water + fresh lemon juice. it's only been 2 days, but i'm already feeling much more relaxed at night. it seems the more lemon juice i add the better i feel. i would be so damned happy if this actually fixed my insomnia. shit's not fun.
ReplyDelete-Anonymous
I've made the experiment of avoiding pork and shellfish for a while (over two weeks)... just had some bacon accidentally (eating in the restaurant it's just impossible to avoid ANYTHING you want to avoid...) And DAMN this is powerful.. I feel like I'm on drugs... So at least for me, there definitely is something to the whole pork thing after all!!! So... thank you RBTI for this insight...
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt takes about 6 days till your numbers are back to "normal" after you ate pork.
ReplyDeleteIt is indeed difficult when someone eats at a restaurant. The restaurant can use some kind of pork juice for preparing the meals.
Here it is also common for them to use lard or sprinkle ground or dried pork on dishes when you wouldn't expect that...
ReplyDeleteWhat about SpongePip and Mattrick?
ReplyDeleteI have lost about 5 pounds doing the simple RBTI recommendations. This is a HUGE deal for me as my weight hasn't budged for over a year- with PACE workouts included.
Still not entirely convinced- but I am listening.
@Wolfstriked- I was thinking the same thing. I have been shopping around the equipment. Thanks for the info.
This is great stuff- since I am a gardener.
Deedle
I just ordered a refractometer, ph strips and an urea test kit all for $75 on Amazon. They also have conductivity meters and ph meters, but I will wait. I can use the refractometer for gardening and my husband for beer making. The urea test kit was for aquariums and we happen to have a couple of small tanks anyway. It pays to shop around. I don't know how accurate these tests will be- sometimes you get what you pay for. We'll see.
ReplyDeleteDeedle
Rob A -
ReplyDeleteThe thing I like is that RBTI diet/protocols don't have to be followed 100%. But, the closer to 100% the nearer to optimal.
I have found that I can follow close to 100% most of the time. Just went to two big business dinners last week and gone from home all week, and was still able to avoid the NO list without upsetting the dinner/biz function.
I have lost 7 or 8 lbs of fat and gained about 5 lbs of muscle. Much better energy now for getting going in the mornings. Before, I had a lot of trouble (energy) with workouts in the a.m., but now at 6am - feet on the flow and out the doe.
Yo, this might be a stupid question but...is mustard ok to eat? I just thought it might not be since it's made with mustard seeds.
ReplyDeleteHow will I find a water destillator in scandinavia? how? how? Seems impossible >_<
ReplyDeleteI've found water filters at the best..
Also curious about morning workouts - wether to pop a fruit before or is fasted training ok?
Matt? Pip? Anyone?
also still curious about bread where sour dough has been used instead of yeast and you can't taste the sourness at all...?
Flaxseeds? (they just ride on through anyway..)
-Beth
(not knowing everything is quite frustrating lol. Asking questions even more frustrating.)
@ anonymous
ReplyDeleteIs Ebay an option for the water distillers?
www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4069.m570.l1313&_nkw=water+distiller&_sacat=See-All-Categories
Thanks Jacqueline, but I'd prefer non-US since taxes and shipping costs would probably ruin me..
ReplyDelete>_<
-Beth
what about www.meditecheurope.co.uk/
ReplyDeleteI bought mine there in Europe. I chose one of the more expensive ones but maybe they have one that meets your budget.
Jacqueline
@AaronF,
ReplyDeleteYeppers- you can email me at RobA289 then the google email. be glad to communicate.
Agree with your sentiments.
Don't buy that cheap distiller. I looked into buying one myself and found a lot of websites selling different distillers that all looked suspiciously the same. Later on I found out that they were all cheap Chinese-made ones that break very easily and even if they don't break, the water they produce has had an off taste to it that makes it undrinkable.
ReplyDeleteSo for the moment, at least, I have resigned myself to buying distilled water.
I don't buy bottled distilled water. Too much estrogens would leach in water.
ReplyDeleteThanks Jaqueline I'll check it out
ReplyDelete(distilled water cannot be found at grocery stores in my country...maybe at a garage or similar where they handle cars, dunno how "safe" that would be to drink though...anso don't dare drinking the stuff we hav at the lab at school since it probably sots in a tank for ages..)
-Beth
haha, fingers don't type well tonight..
ReplyDelete-Beth
Jim De Wit,
ReplyDeleteYES! I stumbled across that book in my Brix research a few months ago. I'm glad someone else has seen it! I'm glad Matt's got around to addressing Brix as well.
Have you read his book? are you a farmer? I'm an aspiring one and feel like that book could be really helpful.
I haven't seen the video but do the Plattes say who they consulted to get their crops high brix?
Matt, thanks for your response! I've been very busy as well, but will be checking this blog regularly. Very nice summary!
ReplyDeleteRyan Platte, I really appreciate your direct answers, thanks!
Sincerely,
-Andrew