I've made the point before and I'll make it even more emphatically here - there is only one person that has cracked the code of the RBTI. His name is Challen Waychoff. It has recently come to my attention that many people are hearing about RBTI here, googling it, and ending up on the forums of various jagoffs that have no idea what they are doing. Fail. There is only one person in the world that has developed any degree of mastery using the Reams equation. Accept no substitutes.
For example, the most popular of the "RBTI" practitioners nearly killed the person that speaks in the following interview, by having her drink a bunch of water. Water is like kryptonite to the hypoglycemic, and this is one of the worst cases of hypoglycemia imaginable - complete with daily blackouts prior to finding the really deally in Wheely.
Anyway, Challen's program is a program designed to achieve remineralization. And well, having a tooth start to regenerate and literally pop out a filling in only two weeks time is a pretty remarkable example of the amazing remineralizing potential of Waychoff's work. Have a listen.
How do you suggest people get started with RBTI? Do they need to go to Waychoff or do an online course with Olszta or others? Where do you suggest getting the kit or should you just put it together yourself? Should we get the materials from Waychoff's site itself. I guess the real question is what are you using?
ReplyDeleteOkay. Well then, Jib and all... regarding what I said on the last post about that RBTI website... NEVER MIND! :-)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteMatt,
ReplyDeleteDid she take min-col? Do you take min-col?
Right on, homey. Love the story of tooth remineralization. I've heard anecdotes about that happening to others too. Is this something people reliably experience? If I worked with Challen, would I expect to pop out any fillings? Or at least not get any more cavities?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I got word- I'll be at Wise Traditions 2011 in Dallas. See ya there, brother. Who else is coming?!
:-D
Matt,
ReplyDeleteCouple of questions. From your response to Ingrid, you mention it's best suited for the very ill, so is it worth it for someone who is relatively healthy but has a few non life threating issues?
Also, what is Challen's recommendation for someone who is or is trying to get pregnant?
Paul
wow rbti looks amazing. so does the sauteed okra!
ReplyDeletei'm somewhat surprised you are aghast that people are googling rbti and trying to find out as much as they can from any and every site on the internet, matt. you told us you were planning to write furiously on rbti and your experiences with challen for the month of july and yet you have only provided us with 2 barely informative posts and one testimonial. what do you expect people to do? everyone who has commented has asked questions about the how, what, when, where, why and how's of this thing and you have not provided very much for us. you give little snippets of info in the comments section, but not nearly enough to give someone an accurate idea of what it would take to actually take rbti on for themselves. i myself am disappointed with the way you have presented rbti, a potentially great healing protocol for many people. it's frustrating that if people want to know more they either have to scroll through the comments of these last 3 posts to see if you have answered anyone's questions or deal with a scant amount of info that will get them nowhere. just my opinion obviously, but i do hope you will start providing more of the pertinent facts about rbti.
ReplyDeleteMatt,
ReplyDeleteDo particular number patterns tend to correlate with particular diseases in RBTI?
I ask this because For years I've had psoriasis on and off. Whenever I hear of a new therapy I'm always curious to know if they have a grasp on what causes it.
I don't suppose you could ask Challen if psoriasis means anything specific to him?
I'm becoming quite fascinated by this whole RBTI thing.
does challen have any young kids as patients? i have a 3 year old w/ cavities and i have loaded her up w/ WAPF foods but to no avail.
ReplyDeletethanks! i appreciate this info.
I don't get it. On the one hand Challen is the only one who has figured it out, on the other hand you can already interpret the numbers by yourself because it's very easy and simple? Where are Challen's disciples? After all he's been using his new stuff since 2005.
ReplyDeleteIf all this is true, Challen is something like the Jesus of health. But then again, didn't we think that about Aajonus before? He had some pretty amazing things going on, too, like large-scale tissue regrowth among others.
I have to echo Paul, Team Smith (you're not the only one!) and Hans - please answer them as best you can!
ReplyDeleteMy own question - if only Challen can do it, what happens if you get into RBTI and he gets hit by a bus the next week? Are you out of luck on this method? Relying on one person in all the world is... scary.
Hope you had a good FL trip.
"For example, the most popular of the "RBTI" practitioners nearly killed the person that speaks in the following interview, by having her drink a bunch of water."
ReplyDeleteIf you take a step back, that does sound a bit crazy, doesn't it... Killing someone by making them drink water? On the other hand, there have been times when I did feel better drinking less.
Hawaii Girl-
ReplyDeleteChallen has documented all of the patterns and all of the rules. It is totally reproducible. Everything anyone would need to know to perpetuate what he has discovered is there on display in his office.
Team Smith-
If you want to know about RBTI or do the RBTI, call Challen and find out what you need to do to begin. I've been saying all along that there is no reading to be done about it. It doesn't exist. Reams wrote one book that is jibberish to anyone trying to explore RBTI. The rest of the information out there falls between innaccurate and misleading - put out by those who don't know how to get reliable results.
I would have said more than I have, but honestly, people wouldn't be able to handle it, and it would just make me look like I have completely lost my mind. That would be a huge disservice, because there are a lot of people that could benefit from this. I don't want people talking themselves out of this being useful before they even try it or look into it further.
Paul-
No. Probably not worth it. This is for those that don't mind sacrificing a large portion of their lives for health. It is socially dysfunctional in countless ways. It's only worth it if the other option is dying or being ill in bed all day, or if you just happen to be a total health fanatic (which is fine if you really are inspired by the field, but not if you do it because of perfectionist tendencies are neurosis). It would make for a fantastic pre-pregnancy prep.
Rocket-
Yes. Not "tend to correlate" but correspond 100%.
Lisa-
Challen has extensive experience with young children. He currently takes care of a kid whose life he saved years ago.
Hans-
Challen has no disciples. Until now he's been almost completely undiscovered. He just does realty and investments in his office and has a back room where he occasionally does a little health stuff when people find him through word of mouth.
I never thought much of anything about Aajonus, other than he had a few good points about the holes in the germ theory, and some interesting thoughts about cancer.
Kash-
Enjoy that okra. Challen is an okra fanatic. Loves soft-seeded vegetables for manganese.
Rob A. -
I wouldn't say it happens every time. But he has amazing stories of remineralization of bone, teeth, etc.
His own lower jaw expanded at age 57, causing his lower teeth to straighten out quite a bit. His office diva had an increase in shoe size by 2 sizes due to remineralization of bones in her feet. Several adults have grown 2 to 3 inches on the program. That kind of stuff.
I'm in agreement with some of the others here in that I'm a bit appalled that Matt has so quickly drunk the RBTI kool-aid. Please step back and allow yourself time to see what happens on a prolonged Challen RBTI protocol, Matt, before you lead to many people down the wrong path. I've not sure how much faith we can put in your investigative process if you so quickly jump on the bandwagon after just one week.
ReplyDeleteThing is, if you spend any amount of time reading RBTI stuff, almost every practitioner claims to be The One and Only who is carrying on Reams' work. Something is seriously wrong with any health protocol where one man claims to have The Keys to good health, and says that no one else has a clue.
Almost anyone can get initial results by making some changes in their diet or supplements. But I'm here to say again that after two years under Challen's directions I developed health problems I never had before. Initially, I saw some improvements in my health, but after awhile there were no additional improvements, and then later developed the problems I've mentioned before. Something is definitely not right.
Hans-
ReplyDeleteWater makes the sugar, salt, and urea readings drop.
Someone with low levels will be in a constant state of hypoglycemia and borderline hyponatremia while trying to drink more than a few ounces of distilled water.
The water recommendation was causing major crashes, daily blackouts, etc.
Challen fixed that problem the first day, and she's been in recovery ever since. He is seeing her in person now and caught her making the mistake of drinking water in the afternoon, which was causing her sugars to drop in the afternoon. He stopped those lows by having her cut that out. Worked great.
Seriously ill and depleted people are very sensitive. And with the universal infatuation with drinking absurd amounts of water, many are dishing out advice that is totally inappropriate for certain individuals.
Sure, do a study on water and giving the general population more water will probably result in improvements in all kinds of areas on a percentage basis. But maybe 25% of the people are negatively impacted - some severely so.
With testing you can see precisely who needs to drink water, how much, and at what time. No collateral damage with a blanket recommendation made on a percentage basis.
Dorie
ReplyDeleteShare your name and I will dig out your numbers. I will see if you followed the program like you say.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThanks again Dorie. I appreciate your comments. As one of Challen's biggest groupies has discovered, it was difficult to follow from a distance. Only in person was Challen able to catch the small mistakes the person was making, and stop the repeated failures.
ReplyDeleteI think a retreat type format is the only real way what Challen does could ever be truly successful for a large percentage of people.
I'm not trying to necessarily steer people down this path either. People have called me with excitement and I talked them out of it. You should have never even dreamed of following this program. This is not for healthy people, generally-speaking. This is for ill people.
Let's say hypothetically that chemotherapy did work for curing terminal cases of cancer. That would be a great discovery. That doesn't mean that everyone should run to the doctor to sign up for chemotherapy.
And, despite my excitement, I'm still not sold. I still think the most important number is 98.6 - or that it should be one of the numbers at the very least. It's not like I'm walking on water either. Adding more meat and dairy back into my diet hasn't done much thus far other than give me more physical pain and body odor like it has always done.
But the most major health problem I've faced in my adult life - pet allergies, has all but completely disappeared. Pretty remarkable seeing that I was having sneeze attacks around a 12-pound hypoallergenic dog 3 weeks ago.
But even I am not that concerned about my personal response to things - something I've probably always put too much weight on. I have confidence that those in dire health circumstances can get more benefit from this than anything else I've come across. And that's what matters to me right now.
Anyone interested in asking questions about RBTI the way Challen works it can go to
ReplyDeleteReallyRBTIinfo@yahoogroups.com
Barbie, you will dig out my numbers? Are you connected to Challen and willing to reveal my private info publicly?
ReplyDeleteNot sure why I'm not allowed to share my story without someone implying I'm lying about being on the program. Is not my story as valid as the story of the anonymous woman on the video who did not even show her face? We have nothing to go on other than her word for it, and yet no one is implying that she's a liar.
Matt!
ReplyDeleteSo I am finally going to shed my "lurker" status and start participating in this beautiful 180 community which I am coming to appreciate more each day. Thank you for all of your efforts thus far - I for one am super appreciative and have been soaking it up like a sponge.
This RBTI adventure was the impetus that compelled me to post. Since you first wrote on it, I have read pretty furiously on the subject and to say I am intrigued would be an understatement. I know it's not great posting etiquette to go on and on, but since I have not mastered the craft of marrying brevity and my thoughts, all I can promise is that I will do my best to not hog up your server space. Forgive me if I press back on some things too - one way I learn best is by playing devil's advocate:
1) How did you arrive at the conclusion that Challen is the only effective RBTI instructor currently practicing? In my study so far, I also have heard that there are many practitioners "out there" who are hybridizing Reams' original method. I actually tracked down and spoke with the practitioner to whom Reams left the copyright to his book "Choose Life or Death" and she shared that Challen was not following Reams' method precisely. This doesn't of course, discredit him or his work. It just makes me curious as to how you have concluded he is the only "real deal" RBTI-er.
2) How are you navigating the level of stringency and compliance to protocol that the RBTI approach declares is necessary for success. I for one am not one to argue with results, but it is difficult to shed certain ideas without attempting to reconcile them with RBTI in some way. I've read "Choose Life or Death" and listened to the Solomon Kirban/Reams interview, and there are areas that are just plain tough to wrestle down. For example, Reams believed most vegetable oils were not only OK to eat, but ideal. This was becoming a sacred cow for me (and I have to imagine for you as well since I believe it was 1 of the 3 most important tenants you listed in your recent 180 summary). I emailed Ray Peat about RBTI, and he said that he had met Carey Reams, listened to his theories, and did not think his ideas were worth considering. I respect Ray so much... I guess I'm just having a hard time reconciling all of this compelling information, especially when it conflicts and double-especially when one school of thought demands no deviance from its methodology.
Anyway, would love to hear more of your thoughts on this. I think you are uniquely qualified to process some of this stuff and look forward to your analysis.
Ty
Thanks, Matt, for clarifying where you stand. Actually, what you just said about it being for the very ill verifies what I've wondered about it for quite some time, and would perhaps explain the differing results from people who consult with Challen. I do wonder what will happen with some of them after years on the program. Perhaps it's a program for turning around health, but not for long-term benefits?
ReplyDeleteI never said anything about lying. I do find it odd you claim two years doing something that was making you ill is all.
ReplyDeleteTy
ReplyDeleteJune wiles. Her sister died of a cancer. Melanoma. June could not turn it around. I know a woman cancer free from being 30 days from death with the same cancer. She got that bad working with june. She is cancer free today, six years with challen.
So, Matt, if I'm having a hard time because 1) I'm still exhausted all day, 2) I can't get my temp up that last degree, 3) I haven't lost any of the RRARF weight (probably other issues but those are the main ones)... would you consider that ill enough to try RBTI? Or would you try thyroid instead? I have to do something because I can't get thru the day, most days. I've fixed so many problems in the last few years, but this isn't better after a year. That 53 week (or whatever) post-starvation turnaround to weight loss never happened.
ReplyDeleteTy-
ReplyDeleteI have no interest entering in any drama with the other practitioners of RBTI. I don't really give a flying rats ass about Reams and who is doing it "right" or whatever. It is irrelevant. I care about who is getting results, and I know that others who have worked with other RBTI practitioners got no results, only to have dramatic health improvements within days of switching over to Challen.
No other practitioners can pinpoint health problems with the exactitude of Challen. Nor can they tell you what you ate and what day you ate it when deviating from the program. Challen can even tell if someone is taking Armour thyroid simply by looking at the numbers. He couldn't do this for 20 years of practicing it. He can do it now.
I recognized the power in this immediately, and had to see it for myself. I have seen it. It is impressive. I can't help but be overwhelmed with excitement over it because I have never come across something this precise and sophisticated in the field of nutrition.
As for Ray Peat, he takes a generalist approach. For example, raising sugar levels stops hypoglycemia and migraines. But everyone is instructed to eat a high sugar, high fat diet. This is incredibly awesome for many people who are underweight, dieted, starved, eating disordered, and so on.
But for the vast majority, many of which need to drop sugar levels and have no problems with hypoglycemia, it can be the wrong diet.
While his info. is pretty good for the majority, he is at the mercy of the general, and cannot take advantage of the specifics offered up by testing and customization.
The fact that he didn't think Reams's theories were interesting tells of his limited mindset. I don't care about Reams's theories either. I care more about what Challen is doing in practice because he is getting results. Flaws in theory or logic don't deter me.
Peat writes articles saying that migraines and seizures have something to do with hypoglycemia and hyponatremia. Challen has the tools to test this, and has come up with specific and detailed protocols to follow to prevent these conditions with what could be damn near 100% infallibility. In short-term practice, Challen is light years ahead of Peat.
However, Peat shows us the long-term consequences of eating lots of oxidized corn oil. Challen has noted that health problems that manifest most slowly are the most difficult to see in the numbers. A declining metabolic rate, accelerated pace of free radical damage and lipid peroxidation, and so on are things the RBTI probably can't pick up.
In short, when cooking for myself I won't be eating corn oil, but will opt for olive oil. When given a choice between those two, the choice is simple. And most of my fat intake will come from dairy fats, beef, lamb, and a little coconut here and there - as well as the fermentation of fiber and starch into the short-chain saturated fats. And I will continue to monitor my body temperature and prevent it from dropping. So business as usual there.
I do think research is blind without paying attention to what gets instant and impressive results. I also think impressive short-term methods are blind if they do not take some basic physiology, biochemistry, and the science of aging into account.
I'm not adapting what Challen does to my own liking - looking at it like a buffet. The only issue I have is the corn oil. I have little to no issue with olive oil whatsoever, so I just make that choice when the choice is given. I don't see much reason to make an issue out of it beyond that.
off topic a bit, does anyone know anything about tannic acid to cure cancer? Someone told me it is the juice of a banana tree? Crazy or true?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread369578/pg1
Hawaii Girl-
ReplyDeleteI think you are a pretty good candidate. Your history suggests that you are highly sensitive (water allergy for example), and probably have what Challen would refer to as "low reserve energy."
When you literally can't live life anywhere near the level you know you should, then dedicating a lot of time and effort to something like this is worth the potential payoff.
Just make sure you do it as close to how he suggests as possible. His reasoning for all the tiny idiosyncrasies is not punishment or religious fanaticism, but very precise guidelines for very important and well-scrutinized reasons.
Bummer me and Pip can't come out there and get you started without having to make the initial investment in testing supplies and consultation just to taste what it can do for you.
In a month or two I'll be much more capable of making that judgement call with confidence. I need much more time for this to soak in before I can give it the 100% seal of approval - especially knowing how tight your finances are. Be patient if you can. Take advantage of having your very own guinea pig that tells all.
Barbie, if you read my comments carefully you will see that I did not follow it for two years after it "made me ill" (your words, not mine). I'll repeat what I said earlier: initially I saw some benefits which eventually leveled off while on the program, and then several health issues arose I'd never had before. After continuing to consult with Challen in hopes of resolving them, and allowing a fair amount of time on the program for them to resolve, I finally gave up on something that seemed to be doing me more harm than good. Why is that so hard to believe?
ReplyDeleteIts not. Perhaps I misread. I wish I could know more of your situation and why that would happen when it gets better for others but it is what it is.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing.
Barbie, my hunch is that there are others like me who have had similar experiences, and who just abandon RBTI altogether rather than hang around blogs like this to try to figure out what went wrong. I did my best to follow Challen's instructions, which are easy enough to follow at home, but sometimes difficult when eating elsewhere. No one can follow it perfectly all the time. But having done so as closely as I did, I feel like I should have had better results. That's why I think that although the RBTI has answers for some people, it doesn't for all, and that indeed it may even miss some important health issues in those it does help. My concern is for anyone believing that it reveals everything there is to know about their health.
ReplyDeleteMatt wrote, "However, Peat shows us the long-term consequences of eating lots of oxidized corn oil. Challen has noted that health problems that manifest most slowly are the most difficult to see in the numbers. A declining metabolic rate, accelerated pace of free radical damage and lipid peroxidation, and so on are things the RBTI probably can't pick up."
ReplyDeleteThis is precisely my concern, that it does NOT pick everything up, but that proponents of the RBTI claim that it does. That it picks up some things I can believe. But that it shows everything, I can't.
Additionally, while Challen may be able to see see that someone is hypoglycemic via their numbers and the regular use of the refractometer (which I agree is an invaluable tool), he may not know the best method for *that person* to resolve it. Our bodies and metabolisms are all different. Why would the same method work for every person?
After quitting consulting with him, I tried a different method of addressing my sugar drops in that I ate some fat and protein with the fruit when my sugar dropped. I've had much better success in keeping it where it should be more consistently, as well as losing some of the fat off my belly that I'd gained while on the RBTI. (Belly fat is another concern I have, as I saw the same thing happen in another person on the RBTI (who consulted with Challen), and pictures/videos of Reams and Challen reveal they both have a large paunch in the lower abdomen. Challen told me once that he had lost some since he recorded his videos, but I've not seen pictures of him to know whether his body composition had also changed.
I do want to say this, after saying all this negative stuff: Challen is a great guy and eager to help people. I don't doubt for a minute his motives, or that he has successfully helped some people to turn their health around. That he can for everyone -- well, my own experience obviously makes me doubt that.
Matt said:
ReplyDelete"I would have said more than I have, but honestly, people wouldn't be able to handle it, and it would just make me look like I have completely lost my mind. That would be a huge disservice, because there are a lot of people that could benefit from this. I don't want people talking themselves out of this being useful before they even try it or look into it further."
That's exactly the stuff I want to hear about!
If it makes the naysayers run, I say let them go. If what they read here is upsetting there's plenty of places to go for mainstream nutritional and medical information that won't challenge their cherished beliefs.
What's not easy to find is someone who is willing to keep an open mind, admit they could be wrong and admit they don't know everything.
Every great discovery starts out as blasphemy. I, for one, want to hear more your blasphemy!
Sirch-
ReplyDeleteThat's the spirit. I'll try to sack up and spit it out.
Dorie-
Again, your comments are just fantastic. I too have had many great successes with sugar problems with a totally different approach (brief bouts of whole foods overfeeding). I've had many failures as well. I've also experienced radical improvements in sugar stability from eating a very high fruit diet, just as others report. There are many paths to fixing sugar instability, and there have been many cases where there is no longer any need for fruit, or ice cream, or sugar under the tongue, or whatever... because sugar crashes can and do completely vanish. Completely. Many times just eating more food and more carbohydrates clears this right up - the opposite of the path to creating the most vicious hypoglycemia - prolonged carb and calorie restriction (the precise method, combined with endurance exercise, used by the interviewee above to become bedridden for a year).
But what I do feel is that the sickest and most desperate people have the best chance of recovery with Challen than with anyone else - certainly in the field of nutrition. And certainly if they are able to work with him one-on-one instead of trying to pull it off unsupervised.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteRemember when I said that I like how you can say in 5 words what it takes me to say in 50? I like it when you ramble too -- I think maybe even more :-)
And I know it fills in more blanks for people. Keep doin' your thing.
To all in general,
Matt already said some of the things I was going to point out, but I just want to say, this is an experiment. And it's early. Matt's only been working with Challen for a week or so. Plus, if he didn't, who would? Probably no one. Everyone who has taken an interest in RBTI has done so for themselves - not that there's anything wrong with that - but Matt's interest is to learn it and help others. And hopefully he'll be able to learn a lot of what Challen learned over the years. I'm confident that if anyone can understand it, Matt can. And I believe he can articulate it to people way better than Challen.
I know people who need the kind of healing for which RBTI has the potential. But I voiced to Matt my concern about getting (my) people on board, testing them (with supplies that I would absorb the cost of - not them), but then lose them when I had them call Challen for their initial consult about their numbers. I think that's where I would lose most of them before they even give it a chance -- just because of the way he tends to come across (like on his website and other things Matt shared).
Anyway, my point is, it would be nice to have someone like Matt to go to who understands it like Challen does.
BTW, that's what I liked about that (other) website - it helped people better understand RBTI. It explains it without the things that turn people off with Challen. I don't like to send people to his website, because they always dismiss it without giving it a chance. People just naturally want to research it before they are willing to invest money or time - and risk their health. So that website made it easier for them to understand it before taking that leap of faith.
Anyway, like I said before, if this has the potential to help the people I know and care about...
I'm just glad that Matt is willing to dedicate this much time and effort to investigating it further. RBTI needs someone like Matt -- to either debunk it or, if it works, to learn it and share it.
I'm missing a bit the scientific spirit in this experiment. Mr. Challen says "my jaw expanded," Matt says: "his jaw expanded," not "he claims that his jaw expanded." Before Matt stated that "Challen is 5'8" with crooked teeth and a bunch of fillings"... It's seriously disappointing. Maybe the numbers do mean something - but if they don't even show something like major food allergies, then there are either other "numbers" that need to be considered, or Challen hasn't mastered reading them to the degree Matt thinks he has.
ReplyDeleteAmen AS. I like Matt being Head Guiena Pig. He is my hero. Xo hagalicous
ReplyDeleteMatt -
ReplyDeleteThanks for the robust and thoughtful reply. It's always kind of a treat to get a well-thought out response on a blog these days - especially one that actually addresses the question at hand.
I believe I read something you wrote (can't find it now) regarding how RBTI would be ideally suited to those with serious health issues. I can totally see that the benefits are the greatest for these desparate situations. From what you know so far, do you feel that it would also be a worthwhile "lifestyle" to adopt for those of us who appear and feel relatively healthy? I'm all about a prophylactic appraoch to disease-prevention. Even though this diet sounds quite uptight/anal/rigid, if it's worth it, I'm all for it. What do you think? Also, I would be curious as to your thoughts on how much of a time investment would be required to be an effective RBTI practitioner. I think it would be invaluable to have this skill set - even if it took years to develop - and be able to help you friends and family.
Ty
AS-
ReplyDeleteYou're right that it deserves a fair shot, and no one has really gone to Wheeling to see what Challen is doing, and whether or not it is a viable and consistent form of nutritional therapy. And yes, I'm the only person nerdy enough to show up and see what's going on.
Learning the basics is so simple. If this really does pan out and continue to impress, I envision people learning the basics and being able to open up small retreats or testing clinics all over the country. They can call in numbers to Challen and get an analysis anytime. Challen could spend his time doing what he does best - putting those decades of hard-earned knowledge into action. Like telling a certain someone what it means when their urine pH test is bluer than a Smurf's ass :)
And the mundane details of what to eat and what not to eat, basic meal structure, drinking schedule, and so on can be up to caregivers with retreats or testing clinics or whatever.
Challen could teach the basics to practitioners and analyze numbers. I could continue to work as an unbiased liason between him and the general public, from the sheer standpoint of my beliefs of its effectiveness.
Anyway, if Challen's work really is as remarkable as advertised, I'll do whatever it takes to have his phone ringing so constantly he won't have time to do anything but read numbers :)
No time to refer to something as a "No-no food," perhaps the most psychologically unpalatable term one could apply to something edible!!!
Or read a list of "no-no foods" that, in actuality if one were to follow his guidance, would find is 50% yes-yes foods (like white flour, white rice, white sugar, dairy fat, salt, and so on - which are foods he eats almost daily, just not in excess).
Hans-
ReplyDeleteHis office diva told me his jaw expanded. She's worked with him for 14 years.
As for food allergies, Challen is very wary about causing them (he rotates foods meticulously, never eating the same vegetable two days in a row, never eating the same sweetener two days in a row, never eating the same meat two days in a row, etc.).
He also knows that food allergies are part of the picture and will show a loss of energy (departure further from A range numbers). They are harder to find. He can see the loss of energy and what day it occurred. It sometimes isn't easy to tell exactly what caused it. He said he's seen everything from jet lag to changes in elevation to stress cause a loss of energy in the numbers with some of his more puzzling cases.
I appreciate your concern. Trust me, I'm trying to be as skeptical as I can be. It is difficult sometimes to believe something is false when you find out that so many other ludicrous-sounding things you've been told actually are true. But I try.
Ty-
I think this is a great thing to learn and could be a very viable source of extra income or a modest living if you were to develop expertise in it. Even if you just learned the basics and still called in numbers to Challen of people you turned onto it in your local area would be something if you really start to be supportive of the idea that this might be highly effective. (okay, worst sentence ever, but it's late. Gimme a break).
A healthy person should probably just continue to live a passionate life and try to eat an abundance of unprocessed foods.
But if you are going to learn it, you'll definitely have to do it for a while. There's no other way to learn it.
I think you need a lab partner. You can call me Igor. Xo
ReplyDeleteYo Matt, change your pic already, it's getting creepy!
ReplyDeleteAS - Matt's wordsmithing keeps impressing me too.
I am good to wait another month to see what you learn; I have company for a couple weeks and am not up for making any lifestyle overhauls till then. When it comes to recipes, I cannot stick to one to save my life, but I promise I will stick to his advice if I do this (although I can see that I may have to break down on chocolate now and then... the day isn't complete without just a little nibble... and carob is a no go).
You are still welcome to come here any time. The airfare would be like a tax write off, no?
Change the "no-no foods" name for sure, because I now crave pork ribs like no tomorrow, despite going two years with very little pig. Plus I had the best Kauai shrimp last night in a low country boil (also with no-no potato and probably no-no sausage), and I all I could think was this might be the last time I make it.
You're my guinea pig hero; I shall steal you away from Deb and hug you and pet you and call you George.
Matt,
ReplyDeleteI have contacted Challen.
I spend the better part of my life wishing to feel alive. (on the couch)
I am not depressed. I love my life, and family. I want to feel better to enjoy them.
My lifestyle is dysfunctional. I am sensitive to everything. Most look at me, and think I look "healthy". I have attempted through "Healthy" diets for 13 years to restore my health.
I have had many "Honeymoons" only to find the marriage was a sham.
I first heard of RBTI a few months back from a friend. They said they were going to try it. They didn't.
My fear now after reading your comments..........will I get it right?
Too, what's up with people gaining belly fat? Is this something you have noticed? (Dorie's comment)
Dorie,
Why not share your numbers? I think it would be a great learning tool for people like me. I could use the help. Did you manage to get into the "healing range?" Could you consistantly maintain the "healing range?" This is important to understand.
Matt,
Have you managed to get into the "healing range?" What about the "interviewee?" Has she managed to maintain the "healing range?" I understand she is vastly improved yet, how is her day to day life? Is she truly enjoying life? Or does she feel like she lives just to "nurse herself?"
I can say, that is how I feel. I live just to "nurse myself." :(
Betty
Hey, a question! What equipment exactly do you need for finding out your numbers? I'm asking this because I'm very interested in this approach, but I live in Europe so shipping any stuff overseas would be inconvenient if I could get it from here. Also, does Challen do email consultation? (or Skype?)
ReplyDeleteHawaii Girl It's ON! Btw I will be in Honolulu two weeks at Christmas wanna meet up? Deb
ReplyDeleteBetty
ReplyDeleteI'm the interviewee. If you would like, you can give matt your email, and we can chat.
Lorelei,
ReplyDeleteYes, not only does Matt's word-smithing impress, his passion for the field gives his words a voice that people want to hear - and need to hear. And like Sirch said so well... "What's not easy to find is someone who is willing to keep an open mind, admit they could be wrong and admit they don't know everything."
I like that Matt's passion for the field makes finding the truth - whatever it is - more important to him than being right -- even if it means having to eat crow sometimes. It's clear that Matt is doing exactly what he's meant to be doing... and that's why he's "crazy good" at it! :-)
Oh and that pic creeps me out too. The whole image/massage/vibe - not good - definitely doesn't fit him.
Matt,
Yep, that's what I was thinkin' too. And I cannot agree more about re-naming the no-no foods. It gets back to the whole "forbidden" food thing - people want what they can't have!! It's just human nature.
Anyway, I like that you're nerdy enough to do it. And I, for one, thank you for doing it.
P.S. Yeah, just call me Smurfette. Actually, nah, don't :-)
as
ReplyDeletePork and some others will remain nono foods. They are contaminating. The plan is to have a "contaminating list" and a "don't abuse" list.
Moi,
ReplyDeleteThank you!
I will take you up on it!
Betty
Matt,
I like the new pic.
hi everyone. First time commenter.
ReplyDeletethis blog has set my brain on fire!
Congratulations to Matt for being so passionate and for sharing everything with us.
Living in Europe and having been unemployed for over a year, there is no possibility I could visit Challen and get my healthy life back.
A million thanks to all of you for your valuable comments and information.
Moi
it would be nice if you could share some of the answers to Betty's questions with the rest of us. I understand this is personal stuff, though.
Again thank you all
Sofia
Moi,
ReplyDeleteThanks. Sounds good. Yes, Matt has explained to me that, while about 5 or so of the no-no foods are definite energy-stealers and should remain no-no foods, the rest are more like no-abuse foods.
Thanks so much for sharing your story! :-)
Yes, I did notice my typo in my comment above about the pic. It was an honest mistake, I swear lol! :-)
ReplyDeleteAS (or Matt),
ReplyDeleteWhat are the 5 or so "energy-stealers"? Pork? Chocolate?
Matt and commenting RBTI-ers,
ReplyDeleteHave you known or heard of people on RBTI seeing improvements with "psychological" issues like low motivation, depression, anxiety, etc.?
Also, this post mentioned tooth remineralization - what about hair remineralization / regrowth?
Sirch wrote:
ReplyDelete"AS (or Matt),
What are the 5 or so "energy-stealers"? Pork? Chocolate?"
Sirch,
I'm gonna leave that question for Matt (and the others with RBTI experience) to answer. I don't want to misguide anyone with any of my own possible misunderstandings of it (thus far). I still know very little about it - with any certainty yet. BTW, "energy-stealers" was my word, not Matt's. Don't wanna put words in his mouth either :-)
P.S. Love your attitude and your comments here.
Sirch - I've been wondering that too. It seems like a lot of the "psychological" symptoms I've been having are really just hypoglycemic crashes. It turns out I'm not actually Mrs. Hyde. I've been eating fruit/sugar to avoid them and voila! I'm a decent person again.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder if some of the depression that I've had the last several years is a combination of physical problems (like hypothyroid or hypoglycemia) but also a depression that comes from being discouraged by so many problems for so long.
Also, Matt said that there are things that effect the numbers that aren't strictly nutritional, like stress. Would that be an issue that Challen should address? Can stress permanently mess with the numbers (and our health) even if we follow all of the dietary/supplement rules?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThanks Matt for this Challen focus.It sounds really great...
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that far overseas from Europe ? :(
"I do think research is blind without paying attention to what gets instant and impressive results. I also think impressive short-term methods are blind if they do not take some basic physiology, biochemistry, and the science of aging into account."
ReplyDeleteWell said Matt! It certainly sounds like Challen is doing amazingly in the "short-term solution" department. Long-term, well, I guess only time will tell. The fact that so many things, as we know, can influence overall energy (sleep, stress, jetlag, etc.) and thus, "perfect numbers", is a testament to the complexity of this whole issue. Thanks to nerdy people like you and your followers though, questions will always keep being asked, and I'm thankful for this :)
Oh, as a quick aside, I did recommend, following your most recent articles, that my sister-in-law, who lives in Washington DC, go visit with Challen. Both her and her husband started on the paleo thing (not low-carb though) about a year ago, following decades of SAD. The husband lost tons of weight, gained energy back, and is doing very well. The lady, in spite of great initial improvements, is still sufferering quite a bit, hence my recommending she visits with Challen.
I have no doubt that the numbers work, that Challen has more than enough experience to interpret them, and is able to foresee the unforeseeable. However, I can't help but wonder, how could we really come up with a set of "perfect numbers", representative of "perfect health" over the longer term of any and all human life, something that is inherently so very complex. Isn't this just another example of our "ability" to compartmentalize everything?
A few other quick examples...
"God is a God of math... Go by the numbers, the numbers never lie". Hmmmm...
Pork is "unclean"? What do we make then of the long-lived healthy Okinawans, known to rely extensively on pork products? And, what to make of this (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/oink/ --- See also the links at the end of the article).
And the numerous healthy tribes known to rely on shellfish of all kind?
Did they ALL have higher "life energy" and only eat the offending foods every 6 days?!?
What about salt? And chocolate? (The longest-lived person on record, Jeanne Calment, was known to eat nearly a kilo of it per week!!!!)
I'm not one to just "go along" with anything ressembling, even if only remotely, religous fervour of some type or another. However, I also will not automatically dismiss it just because of that fact.
As you might imagine, I will definitely be following the adventures of our favourite guinea pig ;)
I'm confused - did she really gain 40 lbs? I thought she was trying to recover from bulimia? Was she under weight or a normal weight before RBTI? If underweight, I can see how that would be good, but otherwise I am confused....
ReplyDeleteYeah a list of the "no-no foods" would be nice and a "don't abuse this food" as well!
ReplyDeleteMaybe a manual for the first steps with what things you should start like what equipment and an instruction list for what you have to pay attention like "don't eat to much carbs after 2 pm" and "don't drink too much water if you are hypoglycemic" etc.
Thanks,
Sylwester
Matt,
ReplyDeleteI am excited about the prospects that RBTI may offer, but have had one thing nagging at me that I'm wondering if you've heard Challen address. As we all know diet is a huge part of maintaining good health. Other factors, (or more specifically, the reduction of other "stressors") are, however, also an undoubtedly important part of the equation, right? (I.e. Sleep, not over-exercising, emotional stress, environmental toxicity levels, emotional stress levels etc). I have not heard the RBTI methodology address these other areas. Given the specificity of the dietary regimen, it surprises me that none of these other areas are mentioned, and even if they are generally affirmed, that they are dealt with in more detail.
At this point, I am left to conclude that if RBTI proposes the equation for health, and yet does not address these other lifestyle areas, that they do not deem them as integral to getting results. Is it perceived that a proper diet and the resulting energy levels are adequate to "handle" all of the other stressors adequately? I would love to hear both the official RBTI stance on the importance of the other lifestyle areas, as well as your analysis of their stance.
Ty
There are about 1000 refractometers on ebay...just need to pick the 'right' one.
ReplyDeleteA couple questions:
ReplyDeleteIs anyone else planning to go to the Wise Traditions conference? I would like to go but would mostly be interested in meeting 180 peeps. The ticket price goes up $50 after Aug 1st, so I'd like to make a decision soon.
Is rbti.info a good website for info on RBTI? I don't know that I'll read much of it, but I may peruse. I can't remember if that website came from Matt or a commenter.
Cheers,
-Aaron
Ty
ReplyDeleteActually the numbers will show a pattern of energy loss if you are living too fast. Challen does stress this if your numbers show it. Ask him. He'll tell you.
Moi,
ReplyDeleteI guess Matt is busy. I sent him my e-mail.
Betty
AaronF,
ReplyDeleteYep- mentioned earlier I'll be there. I want to meet other 180 folks too. Who else is coming?
I want to go to WAP but WOW the tickets are expensive, then hotel and air. ouch. Not sure If I can afford it.
ReplyDeleteStill on the fence and yeah, the price is going up Aug 1 which is Monday.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
haggie
Matt, could you please clarify the role of milk in your diet/numbers, is it helpful because of the calcium,phosphate,fats,etc?
ReplyDeleteMomma, you gots to come to da big island to meet. No can island hop with current tix prices. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteOk, never been there, but maybe I can swing it Lorelei!
ReplyDeleteMahalo
deb
Matt--I second (third, however many'th) Sirch's request that you share all the stuff that you think is offputting or 'out there'--that's what we came for.
ReplyDeleteI'm curious too about the 'mood' connection--your interviewee seemed to imply that her mood improved too. Lots of questions, and glad you're also addressing the 'what should people who aren't deathly ill do with the information' question.
Is coconut oil then not considered so good?
Moi - "living too fast". I like that.
ReplyDeleteMatt, you wrote: "Reams wrote one book that is jibberish to anyone trying to explore RBTI..."
ReplyDeleteI assume you are referring to the book "Choose Life or Death" -- yes?
If so, Waychoff himself writes about that book: "I have studied the RBTI for over 30 years and I really believe that most of the "rules" of the RBTI are in Dr. Reams book, "Choose Life or Death". The problem is that most are not able to see them. For example the "pattern" and the "body chemistry" ranges are different and they are both discussed and very clearly stated on pages 86 and 87 of his book, CLOD, but everyone I know refuses to see them and is not able to understand them when I explain it to them. Yet, to me it's as clear as the nose on my face. Dr. Reams even gives examples of the "pattern" ranges throughout his book. He states this is range B, C, D ,or E and then gives an equation.
"Choose Life or Death" is not a textbook and it was not written with that in mind but it is the key to the RBTI. I have talked with "teachers" and they will tell me that the CLOD is just a good read that they never really studied it. You must read the CLOD as you would read a math book, one word at a time, one sentence at a time. It's filled with "pearls" to understand the RBTI". Do you disagree with him?
The link for this quote is: http://www.heavenlywater.com/catalog/news.php?article=13
The menstrual symptom of dropping clots is common for a "re-mineralization" effect. I had a similar occurrence with drinking nettle infusion. Now I have very light cramps and less flow. I drink a few cups of nettle infusion throughout the month and during. Nettle has a favorable balance of cal/mag, Vit. K, and a boatload of other trace minerals.
ReplyDeleteUncle Rico (Challen) " We also need some way to make us look official. Like we got all the answers."
ReplyDeleteKip (Matt) "How 'bout some gold bracelets?"
hheeehheehheeeehee
Matt,
ReplyDeleteregarding food allergies, I meant Dorie's case specifically, where apparantly her food allergies /intolerances did not show in the numbers (Challen recommended her to eat more corn) but was more significant than her numbers being in range (if they were, or if not, the food allergies / intolerances made Challen's recommendations rather harmful than helpful.) That's why I said the numbers may not be the end all. I'm only guessing with limited info here, of course. I don't mean to discredit your experiment at all, btw, I just mean to say that if you take a step back and read your posts with the eyes of one uninitiated, you will see how the wording can be eye-brow-raising.
Hans
ReplyDeleteI had positive blood tests for food allergies. bananas shut down my airway. I now eat those and everything else I was truly allergic to. an allergy is anything over a .35 on the blood test. I scored over 75 on ragweed. Yet this year I can eden touch ragweed and have ZERO effect.
For me, it seems to work.
Hans
ReplyDeleteI had positive blood tests for food allergies. bananas shut down my airway. I now eat those and everything else I was truly allergic to. an allergy is anything over a .35 on the blood test. I scored over 75 on ragweed. Yet this year I can eden touch ragweed and have ZERO effect.
For me, it seems to work.
Moi -
ReplyDeleteThanks for weighing in regarding my question on RBTI's perspective on the effect of other lifestyle elements on health. You mentioned that "the numbers will show a pattern of energy loss if you are living too fast." Can you describe in more detail what you mean by "living too fast?"
Also, it sounds like you have had a positive experience with RBTI. Can you share how difficult it would be to stick to if you travel a lot? I am on the road for work all the time and sourcing my food is always a challenge. I'm just wondering if it would be a realistic proposition for me. (Matt - any thoughts you have on this would be appreciated as well.)
Ty
Sirch and others who are interested in whether RBTI clears up anxiety depression issues.
ReplyDeleteThe answer is YES!
I have suffered from depression, anxiety, and a whole heap of other emotional issues most of my life. First depression was around 14. Used drugs and alcohol extensively thru my teens to mask my symptoms but gave all that up 15 years ago. I tried various different diets and never got relief, some of them actually made me worse until I found RBTI. I actually started RBTI because I was back to having panic attacks and dealing with a lot of fear, depression and lack of motivation. RBTI has given me a personality change. I have gone from a fearful person who was kinda angry and hid away much of the time to a generous open light hearted person. Rather than seeing problems I now see solutions. I am calm and relax a large portion of the time. For me I always knew that something physical was up because I noticed my anxiety would be strongest at certain points of the day. Especially around 11am in the morning. Then by the evening I would feel quite relaxed and peaceful but the next day around 10am i would start feeling kinda panicky again. That's because your sugar levels naturally rise in the evening but I didn't know this before I started RBTI. All of my friends have commented in the change in me.
The beginning of starting RBTI was a little bit of a roller coaster until my sugars started to stabilize but I can't recommend this program enough because I truly was desperate by the time I found it and to be honest with you. I'm not even sure I would be here now if it hadn't been for RBTI.. It gave me my life back !
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteTactile-
ReplyDeleteYou would have to speak to Challen about how to get the testing supplies overseas. He has worked with many Europeans over the years. I'll try to get him on Skype. That would be a be a big help for him, and others outside the U.S.
Betty-
I've lost belly fat already. Having trouble keeping my shorts on when I swim in the ocean. One of the people that turned me onto this (my future lab partner, sorry Deb) lost roughly 15 pounds and is a 40-year old female that looks outstanding. I haven't heard of anyone gaining belly fat doing this, but could see how it would be possible if you were really pounding bread, fried food, ice cream and the like as opposed to less pornographic foods.
I wouldn't worry about getting it wrong either. You'll probably do just fine. If you find it's not working out and you are having trouble maintaining numbers in the A range, then you could take the next step and learn it in person. But most do not require doing so. They rave about it over the phone to me all the time - having no idea what Challen even looks like.
Hawaii Girl-
I don't make enough to need a tax write off!!! Maybe someday :)
Marco-
ReplyDeleteWanted to thank you for your excellent comment the other day about self-experimentation and all that. Really good stuff.
Right now I drink a lot of milk because you can't drink that much water! I use it for hydration. But yes, it is of course very rich in minerals.
Sylwester-
I didn't want to introduce some of those things too early. Just like someone pointed out the other day, some people rush to start changing their diets around every time they see a new idea. I'm trying to introduce this stuff and see for myself first before making everyone else jump on the bandwagon. Be interested sure, but don't go all in. I will try to lay out some of the basic guidelines soon. It's not that complex. It sounds a lot more specific than it is. It is not too far off from the standard American diet in many ways.
Eric-
Awesome comment. We are all thinking about these things of course.
As far as Okinawans are concerned, it's my understanding that they don't eat very much pork at all, their longevity is partly attributable to their small size, and that the population is getting increasingly less healthy, not more healthy.
There's also no doubt that many can get away with eating all kinds of things and live to ripe old ages without health problems. Others seem to get ill no matter what they eat. Recovery strategies and excellent health maintenance are two very different things. That's how I guess I justify looking into specific approaches that demonize all kinds of foods that entire populations eat daily and maintain good health doing so. (If you recommended Paleo to someone, then clearly you are already open to this logic, as there were many fabulously healthy grain and dairy eaters out there too - Okinawans eat a predominantly grain-based diet for example).
Stress-
ReplyDeleteIt can definitely throw the numbers out of kilter. Challen has mentioned everything from changes in elevation and jet lag causing big changes in body chemistry. He does feel that the biggest factor in how a person responds to stress is their mineral supply. I cannot disagree with this at all, and have believed this for years.
Charles-
That's why it's read as jibberish by the unitiated. It doesn't make any sense and reads like a memoir of a schizophrenic if it is not read as Challen says it should be. Without a reference point however, it just reads as silliness - a bunch of commandments and instructions without ample explanation. There is nothing in it that would convince anyone of anything. But I guess if taken incredibly seriously as Challen has read it, it is a real gem.
Deb-
I think nametags would be better than gold bracelets. All laminated and what not. We gotta look legit man.
Ty-
Very hard to follow while traveling.
Energy loss foods-
Pork, shellfish, skin fish, nuts, chocolate
Those appear to be the biggies. And of those, only pork requires obsessive avoidance (like vegans and Rabbis would both call you paranoid).
Pipparoni-
Thanks for the comment. Even I have noticed a personality shift, eager to talk to and meet a lot of people in person when I couldn't really be bothered by that in the past. I hope you live happily ever after haha!!!
Thanks Pip! I think you two need an assistant btw.
ReplyDeleteMatt: can my nametag say 'grandma'?
When I did the milk diet, I grew about a quarter of an inch. That remineralization shit really works.
ReplyDeleteholy cow, personality changes?! i need that. haha. my husband jokes that i don't really like people b/c i hate big crowds and people in general make me crazy. i used to have extreme anxiety/panic at even stepping outside my own front door (unless it was to go back to my parents' house where i felt relatively safe--college and a few years beyond). i am long over that, but i think i still have what the commercials/big pharma have dubbed "social anxiety."
ReplyDeletealso, i was rummaging around on the net yesterday looking for more info about remineralizing the body and i came across a site that is quite similar to rbti stuff, but i did not see mention of rbti. they test the ph, but i think that's it. they use a special drink and baths to remineralize and heal and the diet they suggest is similar to rbti with no white stuff etc, but they emphasize limit or cut out "acidic foods," which i always thought was a bunch of bs. anyway, i might try the drink b/c they claim it gives them a lot of energy and it's made of fresh lemon juice, black strap molasses, pickling lime (2 T. per gallon of distilled water) and a pinch of epsom salts. in about 8 oz of distilled water. people are claiming diseases, cancers, skin issues etc. being healed/cured with this protocol. thought that might be of interest to some who are not yet ready to jump into rbti b/c just trying out a mineral drink would be easy.
the baths are made up with peroxide, epsom salts and sometimes baking soda. fyi. oh, and i have been drinking fresh lemon juice in warm distilled water every morning before breakfast for a little while now (it's actually something i used to do b/c it was "the thing" to do) but it's really great. today i added a T. of molasses and was pleasantly surprised by the taste. i can't stand the stuff in milk or by itself, but with the lemon it was delightful. haha.
MATT-
ReplyDelete1. Nuts - does that include seeds? i.e. sesame seeds (unhulled) are rich in minerals such as calcium etc..
2. Is meat necessary? I feel better on a more vegan diet, meat eaten with carbs makes me bloated and always have (unless I eat a tiny tiny portion).
If eating meat, though, would help my health issues I'd willingly force it down lol
3. What to drink besides skim milk? I'm lactose intolerant and my body doesn't agree with milk proteins either. Never drink with foods though, but between meals I down some water and herbal teas.
4. The best home made ice cream (in an ice cream maker) is mango and some coconut milk. Pure bliss (and out of context..)
Heck, I need to contact Challen.. I'd like to get rid of some issues Original had as well...
DOREY-
Did you eat corn becuause Challen said so, knowing how you would react to it? Did you explain to him how you woud react?
Beth
So what does Challen think about using foods (specifically coconut water, whole milk and orange juice) to provide minerals in ones everyday diet? Does he prefer the supplements instead?
ReplyDeleteWise Traditions conference:
ReplyDeleteI'm with grass fed momma on this. The tickets are expensive! Pricing the whole thing out: airfare, hotel, plus food could easily get closer to $1000. That's a bit steep. I'm not sure I'm going to buy tickets at that price level. How about we create our own 180 meetup where we can hang out at somebody's house and have Matt cook food?
On the whole pork thing. I remember Chief saying he didn't touch the stuff. I was never really sure why.
last week i increased my daily mineral intake via blackstrap molasses (3-4 spoonfuls a day, usually mixed with store whole milk) and some strange things are happening. I have these weird headaches that last a few seconds, my head feels like i'm swimming (like i'm sick and have taken too much nasal decongestant or something) a couple hours after i take a few spoon fulls, i'm sleeping deeper and consequently waking up feeling hung over. my sense of smell is also off. it's like when you are sick and you can constantly smell something a little off. it's not the air, it's totally me. overall, i feel like i'm sick, but i don't have aches or pains. my throat was also killing me up until today. it felt like i hadn't used my throat muscles in weeks and all of a sudden they are working again. really strange and kind of painful. my nose feels more animated, as well. when i breath in it widens itself against the change in air current automatically. i've never experience that in my life and feels kinda weird.
ReplyDeleteon the flip side I'm thinking more clearly, my sex drive has increased dramatically, the time my body wants to go to bed is finally consistent (ever since taking the blackstrap i've fallen asleep around 11 every night), my ability to remain creative has leveled out, and my energy levels have increased quite a bit. my teeth also feel super strong yet my molars hurt. now, last time i went through an entire bottle of blackstrap i noticed my teeth in my lower jaw had widened a fair amount, and my molars. I chalked it up to all the sugar I was intaking, never once considering it was the mineral content of the molasses. that would be awesome if my jaw continued to widen because i hate wearing retainers even if it is only once a week.
-Anonymous
Wow.....water is bad??I have a condition where I make too much urine and so drink water all day long.This is why I always felt that I never had a cavity in my whole life.Was thinking the water was mega dosing minerals.
ReplyDeleteLately I have been eating a pint of Hagen Daz every night.I also gave up my diet sodas and now drink regular soda all day.I actually feel better....WTF???
Wolfstriked,
ReplyDeleteI am not convinced sugar is all that bad. I ate tons and tons of it growing up. I never had a health problem, never had cavities, and never had any belly fat.
In fact I didn't have any health issues until I went through an extended low-carb/high-exercise/high-stress phase that was very stressful on my body. It is still recovering.
I've always been far more suspicious of the junk in diet sodas than of plain sugar. My guess is that sugar just really isn't that bad and is even beneficial in certain contexts... as long as your body is healthy, you're getting the nutrients you need, and you're not depleting your body in the long term.
Great discussion. Really enjoying the back and forth.
ReplyDeleteMatt -
You mentioned that RBTI would be very difficult to follow while traveling. I read in Reams' CLOD book that the better your numbers are the less stringent you have to be on the diet, and conversely, the worse your numbers are, the more stringent you have to be on the diet. This leads me to infer that for health maintenance purposes (vs for addressing an acute disease), there would be some benefit to following an RBTI protocol to the best of one's ability even if compliance to it was not 100%. Do you get the impression from Challen that following the foods-to-avoid list and following some of the general priciples of RBTI would be beneficial to the extent iit was followed, for maintaining and preventing disease?
Incidentally, I called Challen and ordered the test kit so I would be able to get a read on my numbers. Very excited to see where I'm at.
Ty
I've been thinking lately about what causes people to start developing health problems/gain belly fat/move away from A/B range... whatever.
ReplyDeleteMy theory here is that it takes a lot. I've been through majorly stressful times in the past in my life but I've always bounced right back once the stress is over. Not so this time and I think it's because I pushed my body too hard with all my health/exercise obsession. The body can take a lot, but there is a limit. Beyond this point things begin to deteriorate and the body does the best it can.
Of course once in this state, I agree with Matt that restoring health is much more difficult than maintaining it.
AaronF,
ReplyDeleteI went through the same as you... also a couple other diets toppled on top of that. It definitely takes alot of time to get to a healthy state.
I am pretty intrigued by this Method... i still cant see why he recommends corn oil?
Three years ago i cut out pork for a whole year... then started eating it again, and didn't notice a real difference in my health. I usually don't eat much anyways... except when i go out for breakfast or go to chipotle and get carnitas.
What does Challen think about smoking high quality cigs and drinking moderate amounts of Red wine and Micro brews Matt?
All this is pretty interesting stuff... especially the palate widening effects, and popping cavaties out!
Can't wait to hear more about it!
troy
i am wondering the same thing as Ty. mostly because i would like to try this with my 3 year old who can be pretty darn stubborn and because we are taking our pigs to the butcher in 2 weeks. :)
ReplyDeletecurious to know what is in the kit you ordered, ty?
have lots of other questions about challen's RBTI that hopefully matt will address in an upcoming post--how to distill water, when to drink water, best times of day to eat certain foods, when to eat in general.
thanks!
Regarding the WT conference...
ReplyDeleteI had planned to go to meet 180 peeps too. But I have no idea where I'm gonna be come November yet, so not sure if I'll make it. If I'm still in Atlanta I can probably go, but would definitely be road-trippin' it, not flying. I enjoy (prefer) road trips anyway - as long as I have good company. Don't mind flying - just rather avoid the whole airport thing.
Just an idea... depending on where peeps live, some of you could maybe do carpools and split the gas expense? And maybe even get just two hotel rooms - women in one, men in the other - and split the cost? That is... if there's no one who lives in or near Dallas who would be willing to host 180 peeps :-)
Anyway, in light of this RBTI stuff (assuming all goes well), it'll definitely make for interesting discussion at the conference among Wise Tradition folks lol! Well, assuming that's what Matt's topic of discussion will be there.
Ty, How much did the testing kit run you from Challen, and what all was included?
ReplyDeleteLet's start by introducing myself a bit.
ReplyDeleteYears ago my Crohn's played up again, got hospitalized, walked out of there and half a year later my condition was so bad that I needed immediate blood transfusions, but still refused. After many tries I started to believe I could not poison my body back to health with medicine, and started looking at the best alternative I could find; RBTI. I told this to make sure everyone understands that I had all the motivation in the world.
So I got the kit, got the textbook by Dr. Beddoe and started to try and make some sense out of it. Back then I did not know what to get where and failed to find the easy way to get things to Europe. But after a few months the Doc in the hospital did not have the desire to see me anymore. Crohn's is easy, no matter what others say. If you understand what to do and you can test yourself, you can 'predict' and correct any and all inconveniences.
Despite doing this for many years and working with numerous people, I will remain one of the people who did not crack the code of RBTI as Matt wrote it nicely, but I can recognize it.
And I can only confirm that there are so many out there that do RBTI, but just don't get everything (like me). But after years of study I can tell when someone gets it and someone does not.
Still, like the most gifted person in RBTI said: I would rather go to a beginning RBTI consultant than a senior medic.
Sure you will find people who died while under consultation of a RBTI practitioner. But they probably went to the medic first, and filled their bodies with drugs to poison them back to health. Who said they would have lived another year if they did not see them? How many could have been cured by RBTI consultants that died in hospitals?
Let's be fair: we don't know.
Still the one thing that amazes me about this whole blog is that RBTI seems to be a therapy for the hopeless. It is not. It is a lifestyle that should be able to prevent illness.
Simple proof everyone here can see is that Challen himself follows it (causing his lower jaw to expand according to Matt). RBTI gets the credit for it, but Challen is not one of the very sick, is he?
One other thing that is incorrect is that there is no textbook. There are many, even Challen himself sells the 'levels' one to four on his site, which is www.heavenlywater.com.
RBTI is a science and an art that not only involves a urine and saliva test, but also pays attention to exercise and stress. The best consultants do understand how that affects the mind, but there are only a handful. Don't know if Challen is one of them.
I am one of the unfortunate people who would like to understand things myself. If others can live with just doing what others say: Bless you! I can't. I needed to learn RBTI to understand it. For the unfortunate who are like me: www.rbti.info contains some basics and it explains things in a simple manner without the hocus-pocus.
William
ReplyDeleteYes, RBTI is a science. Challen was one of the very sick. He had Leukemia 30 years ago.
Having worked with two different RBTI consultats, I can honestly say the first one almost killed me. He had NO IDEA what to do with the numbers or my diet. After switching to Challen, my program was a complete 180 and I IMEDIATELY began to improve. I dunno about you, but to me that SCREAMS like he knows what he is doing where the other guy was off his rocker.
Lisa
Matt will not be posting information lik ethat. Because it is completely individual. If he posts his program, and another person who is low sugar copies him, they could go into a coma. It's that important that you GO BY THE NUMBERS.
I would not reccomend feeding pork to your children. In fact, getting that 100 percent out of your diet is far more important that anything else.
AS
RBTI is not that difficult to follow while traveling. I even went out to Red Lobster with Challen and did not get any 'contamination.' REALLY it's so easy.
Anonymous
Holy Shit. That's a lot of BSM. Iron is constipating. haha!
Bryan
Coconut water is cool. Sometimes I cook my oatmeal in it, or have some with lunch. Whole milk. Never. We do non organic skim milk. Orange juice is great if your chemistry allows for it. If it doesnt, it usually only takes a couple weeks to get in line enough to include it.
Anonymous up a little higher
ALL NUTS and HARD SEEDS are a complete no no. They are way too hard on digestion. I would reccomend contacting Challen. You won't have trouble with milk. I used to and don't anymore. Yes you do have to eat meat.
Team Smith
I would be careful if I were you. I would not drink epsom salts. The things you mention about that stuff worries me! Yuck.
From the little I have learned so far about RBTI, it seems that lemon water is a critical component. But as a "protein type" (metabolic typing) lemons are supposed to be quite detrimental to my pH. Any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteEVERYBODY
ReplyDeleteMatt cannot tell you how to follow the RBTI. It is SOOOO individual! If I were to follow his program, I wouldblack out daily again, and prolly end up dying.
Everyone's body chemistry is DIFFERENT. There is no blanket diet if you are already ill. It's easy to stay healthy, but it's specific to get there!!!!
I just went to Challen website for first time and something struck me.He says to stay away from water and then sells minerals?Why not just drink alot of hard water as its loaded with calcium,magnesium.He sells dolomite and lime water which are part of a fish tank enthusiasts arsenal.
ReplyDeleteAnd why does he recommend skim milk?
Lisa and Bryan,
ReplyDeleteRegarding the materials I ordered from Challen: The equipment cost $395. We did not have time to get into each piece of instrumentation that this included, but he said it was everything I would need to do the urine and saliva tests. According to sites like rbti.info, I would imagine this includes the refractometer, pipettes, solutions etc. He said it would take 2 weeks to arrive and also strongly recommended that I purchase some other introductory materials including some books called "The Only Health Guide You'll Ever Need," "The Secret is in the Diet," and his Level I book. (Cost was an additional $85 for these 3 items.) He said these pieces would walk me through exactly how to go about testing myself and deciphering my numbers. He then said I could call him, read him my numbers, and he would interpret them (I believe his fee was $25 per 15 minutes). I asked him if he was able to take me on as a client or if he was too busy. He told me that he was fine to take me on since he does not generally have to work with people on an ongoing basis, but rather guides them for a while by interpreting their numbers every couple weeks, after which time they are able to "take it from there." He definitely was in favor of using the RBTI as a means of health preservation in addition to using it as a tool to rectify more serious conditions. I don't have any glaring health issues, but I can keep you guys posted with how things go if you'd like.
Ty
Ty,
ReplyDeleteI would love it if you kept us updated as you work with Challen. I am in a very similar situation so I am very interested in your experience.
While I don't have any super serious issues, RBTI seems like a good tool set for the smaller issues I do have...blood sugar regulation and inflammation. Provided it helps me I may try to branch out and help my wife (utter lack of energy) and my mom (diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue and other health issues)
Moi -- thank you for really clearing that up. Perhaps you can expand on your views regarding metabolic typing beyond just one word.
ReplyDeleteMatt what do you think about metabolic typing and specifically the havoc lemon juice might play with a protein type?
@Moi
ReplyDeleteReally? i basically have one with every meal. i don't think i'd increase it beyond that amount, tho. speaking of constipation, i'm currently not eating like i want to (white rice and ground beef haha. i'm super poor at the moment) so i've been having problems, but it's cleared up since the molasses was added in.
@Kelly
Depression, in my experience, is largely due to diet. Hell, I've had confidence problems, anxiety, and frustration issues all disappear because of a change in diet. External factors were merely triggers that exposed my imbalance. These days I rarely feel down, and if i do, it's something i can think my way out of. Prior, it was an uncontrollable thing that would persist even after i tried to rationalize with myself.
-Anonymous
Can anyone point to some sort of eating guide for this? I feel like I am getting more and more confused with each post.
ReplyDeletethanks for responding, ty and moi! i appreciate your input.
ReplyDeleteHi Moi!
ReplyDeleteI think it was Ty (aka TJK) who was asking if it was travel-friendly. And maybe someone else did too. At least I don't think I did?? lol! But that is good to hear :-)
Anyway, thanks for all of your input. It really helps a lot! Yes, it does sound like it's pretty simple and easy to follow. I can stick to anything as long as it's important to me - and my health and the health of those I care about is very important to me. That's the main reason for my interest in RBTI - to help them (and others) restore their health. I'd gladly serve as guinea pig for them - hopefully getting my numbers in the A range in the process and maintain there.
With everything that I take an interest in, I always feel the need to learn it and understand it inside and out. And knowing the "whys" behind the details of it is a huge motivator for me in adopting it as a lifestyle, in which case, I can with no problem. So for those reasons, I usually extensively research and experiment with these things. But, this time, (to avoid misinformation out there) I'm trying not to do my usual researching, in lieu of Matt's real life experience with it (and others like you). I want to watch and see where Matt's research/experiment goes. Then go from there.
It's really great to hear from you and the others who have real life experience with RBTI.
Regarding pork...
ReplyDeleteAaron,
I recall Chief saying that too about pork. At the time, it reminded me that my grandmother, who was all or mostly Native American, never ate pork either. The reason it stands out for me is because they raised pigs on my dad's family's farm (that was my grandfather's influence--who was not Native American). But interestingly, it was well known that my grandmother would not eat pork or anything that had pork in it. She even refused to cook it. I'm going to ask my dad about it. Just curious to see if he knows what her reasons were.
Anyway, very interesting.
Moi,
ReplyDeleteThanks for some of the great insight. I had a couple questions for you: How long have you been working with Challen? I'm a traveling sales rep and am on the road quite a lot. I am interested in trying to identify some impactful pro-RBTI tenants/guidelines that are reasonably achievable while traveling. Conversely, it would be nice to know what kinds of things I don't have to worry so much about. For example, the variables I encounter on the road include hotel rooms (air quality), water quality/flouridation (affects showers and drinking water), sleep schedule, time zones, restaurant food quality etc. I figure that although my situation is more of an extreme, most everybody lives life in such a way that utter compliance to a program like RBTI would be tough and knowing where one can flex without compromising all benefit would be helpful.
Ty
What's a "skin fish"?
ReplyDeleteSo what's with the lemon water? Is that recommended as a tonic (as long as you're not hypoglycemic)? How often and how much for a maintenance dose? And are you supposed to do a big dose at first as a kickstarter?
@Anonymous - Depression (and other mental/psychological symptoms like anxiety, anger, etc.) are the toughest ones to deal with for me so far. Thanks for the encouragement. It took me 3 years to decide that all this isn't just me being a terrible or weak person (despite what others said).
ReplyDeleteJust another reason I want to heal. It'll be a good day when I'm not this depressed/overwhelmed/anxious; it'll be a *great* day when I can prove that all of this wasn't in my head. :)
To others asking for specifics: Matt and Moi keep saying that there is no general protocol for everyone when you're healing, so I'm confused about why everyone keeps wanting to know how to start.
Is it that we're having trouble sifting through what is part of an individual healing protocol and what is part of universal maintenance guidelines?
Thanks for mentioning that again Kelly.
ReplyDeletePlease everyone DO NOT RUSH OUT AND START GUZZLING LEMONADE AND BLACKSTRAP MOLASSES!!!!
This is not a one size fits all program
I would also like to know what skin fish are. It conjures strange images.
ReplyDeleteMatt, if a tax write off isn't an incentive, then there's still the offer of room and board and your own tour guide groupie.
Matt, funny cult/Waco reference with the new bio picture. I thought that was you with cool glasses for a moment, but realized it wasn't when the file's name said "koresh."
ReplyDeleteMatt ~
ReplyDeleteHello again. I noticed you've taken painstaking measures to answer numerous detailed questions from others, but have passed over the simple one I asked you (twice).
Since it's very relevant, I'll try again:
The commenter 'Original RBTIer' directly identified herself as the case you referenced in your previous post on hypoglycemia.
In the interest of clarity -- Is this true?
Taylor/Hobson
The loss of energy foods pork, shellfish, nuts and chocolate are also in the list of no-no foods for those with histamine intolerance. Histamine is hardly present in fresh meat and shellfish though, but increases as they mature and getting older.
ReplyDeleteThere are many other intolerances as well, e.g. oxalates and salicylates. I don't know what no-no foods are on those lists. But I'm sure there is something specific like this that causes loss of energy in some people.
And yes, the Okinawans get less healthy while at the same time eating more grains now.
Exactly what in the pigs make us acidic and acidic where? Is this the popular acid/base balance theory we are talking about?
I posted this half an hour ago in a single post, but even though it was in the 4096 character limit it does not show. Sorry if I waste your time by making a double entry.
ReplyDeleteAfter discussing this blog with some others, things became very clear: they had no idea what RBTI is or does. Sure it says that you need a bunch of instruments, and can do wonders for the hopeless, but that was about it..
We also have the stories about people that have been ‘killed’ or harmed because they followed RBTI. To shed some light on how that can happen to a beginning consultant, I would like to make some things clear.
First is that in RBTI an advice should ALWAYS follow the numbers and should not be a general one.
However, there are some general guidelines, like taking lemon water (10% lemon juice and 90% distilled water), plain distilled water and taking 1/20th of your body weight in as water / lemon water. For this post I will just use these and forget the rest.
Numbers will be written as followed:
Brix Urine pH (UpH) /Saliva pH (SpH) Conductivity Albumin Nitrate Nitrogen (NN) / Ammonia Nitrogen (AN)
Brix is the total dissolved solids in the urine, including part of the salts (conductivity), but will for the most part be carbohydrates if everything is normal.
UpH and SpH means the ratio of cations over anions, NOT their total amount!
Conductivity is the measurement of resistance in the urine, which is for the most part made up of salts.
Albumin is the cloudiness caused by particles in the urine. Particles are usually for a substantial part caused by old cells that have been replaced in the system and are expelled through the urine. Some also call it ‘Cell Debris’, but it is not only cell debris.
NN is proteins in, AN is proteins out. NN should be higher unless you don’t get proteins (fasting) or there is something weird like eating 5 banana’s a day for a longer time…
The equation for perfect health is CS + 1.5 6.4/6.4 6-7C .04M 3/3
CS means Common Sense. Even though I will not go in to that now, I will say that whoever does not understand that we should eat a wide variety of foods, is not there yet.
Rest is in the other post!
This is the follow up of my other post and I will try to explain a bit how someone may get harmed or hurt by following example:
ReplyDeleteNow, just imagine we have a 40 year old male for a first test who is 2.0 6.2/6.2 60C 4M++ 16/10.
Everything is high and we are a beginning consultant.
So for the first time in this 160 pound person’s life we put him on a ‘normal’ amount of water which would be 8 pounds a day. Every part of the numbers would be diluted, except the pH’s which are ratio’s and will go up a bit. Let’s say that every other number would be divided by 5 if he would be in the office a week later:
.4 6.4/6.4 12C 4M++ 3/2
But there is also a chance he will be dead by then because the Brix, NN and AN are deadly low. The water may have killed him by lowering his energy too much.
Now we know that, we go back in time and give him lemon water. Because high conductivity causes the cholesterol in the arteries to stick to the walls, we know that this person has a huge chance of a piece becoming too big and turning loose.
On the other hand the UREA’s (combined number of NN and AN) are dangerously high because the UREA’s thicken the blood.
Combine these two and you have an heart attack waiting to happen. Now we give him lemon water causing an increase in health of the liver, creating lots and lots of new building blocks for cells that should have been replaced a while ago, and the body starts to make all these new cells and throws out the (parts of the) old ones in the blood, causing it to be thicker… Dead before the next consult.
In this case the man would probably have had a heart attack anyway, but if the consultant understood RBTI on a level that I do, it could have been prevented. And I don’t even come close to being as good as Challen is (trust me, I am not being modest here).
However, if we keep in mind that RBTI means Reams Biological Theory of Ionization and is engineered by Dr. Reams, who followed it since he invented it till he died, it may not come as a shock that I don’t believe it is only for the hopeless (even though I am fully aware that Dr. Reams had serious problems because of his damaged liver during the war). But he put his kids on RBTI since they were born, and they never got sick.
The other funny thing is that not Challen, but Dr. Beddoe (see www.advancedideals.org) was Dr. Reams his star student and he wrote a textbook about RBTI, that Dr. Reams called ‘a stroke of genius’. I hope some here will understand that I have a hard time believing we should say only Challen does real RBTI. He may or may not be the best, but no not the only one.
Trying to understand a bit about RBTI will improve your health a bit.
Not trying will give no improvement (even though obviously there are other ways).
If Dr. Reams did not believe RBTI is beyond his understanding, why did he teach himself? Why did he like a relative inexpensive textbook by Dr. Beddoe?
Why did he call his book CHOOSE life or death?
Brock and Lorelei (and anyone else who was wondering)-
ReplyDeleteSkin fish have no scales, just skin. Catfish are one example. This page gives a pretty decent list of which fish have scales and which don't:
http://www.islamic-laws.com/fish.htm
Moi,
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to hearing from you soon. Matt's e-mail states he
will pass along my address. :)
Betty
AS,
ReplyDeleteAbout sharing those links -- no worries. I do that kind of stuff all the time too XD Oops!
This all reminds me of my guitar tech friend. You can learn how to do a guitar setup if you put the time and effort into it, but to get good at it you're going to need to spend a LOT of time thinking about it and doing it, and there's also a huge investment in tools.
Also, no two guitars are the same. You can have buzzing, for example, but there are a lot of things that can cause that. The neck could be bowed, and it might need a truss rod adjustment, or the neck might need to be clamped for a day or two if the truss rod isn't working right, the fretboard could be humped up somewhere on the board and you might have to ramp the frets by leveling and recrowning them, there could be a twist in the neck so it's higher on the bass side than the treble side, the saddles could be too low, the neck might have to be shimmed or re-fitted --
-- buzzing is a simple problem, but there are a million things that could be going wrong, and without seeing the guitar itself and examining it, there's no way to dial in what the exact problem is.
The guitar tech I know is also really, REALLY good, which reminds me more of how Matt's talking about Challen.
Guitar setups/repairs are my reference point. I can understand where Matt's coming from with this RBTI stuff. Trying to go gung-ho on this is probably biting off more than you can chew for almost everyone who would try it. It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it would take serious time and effort studying it to get a grasp on it. Just like doing a setup on a guitar. Adjusting a truss rod is not difficult at all, but you have to completely understand why you're making the adjustment and how it plays into the bigger picture as a whole.
Drinking water at a certain time is about as easy as taking a piss. But dialing in that time an individual has to drink it, and understanding why they have to drink it, and what effect that has on them as a whole considering the entire program -- that takes skill. Challen might not be God but if he has skill in this area that deserves to be respected. I don't worship my guitar tech friend but his work really is pretty fucking outstanding and I've never seen better work; it's hard not to get a little zealous when you appreciate a high level of skill so much.
So for me, I'm trying to let go of this RBTI stuff until I figure out what I want to do about it. There're people who get their guitars repaired and people who repair guitars for other people. I will say I like the idea of this RBTI stuff becoming more or less readily accessible to everyone in the country at some point or another -- it's kind of like, not everyone needs to be a farmer, but if we had more local farms everything would probably be a lot more sustainable. If there were a handful of people in every state who knew what they were doing with RBTI like Challen does, that would be light years ahead of where things are now.
And I think that'd be fantastic. So at the very least I'm really appreciative that Matt's getting the word out on this guy and trying to give him the recognition he deserves. No need to go crazy about it and just blindly 'hop on the bandwagon' but in the same sense, though I don't worship Matt, I think he has a lot of pretty brilliant ideas, and I've turned a lot of people on 180 Degree Health because I really believe his ideas are worth listening to and that getting it out to a wider audience could potentially help a lot of people.
Cool stuff.
William,
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing that. That was a great example and it really clarified this whole thing to me. You can try to fix a problem one way, but you can get that 'bump in the rug' thing and it just creates a problem somewhere else. What I like about this RBTI stuff is it sounds so similar to me to guitar work, basically because it's a system that uses direct measurements and observation to diagnose and fix a problem. In other words, the scientific method.
That's what's so exciting and revolutionary about this. To me, being able to work with a person's health like a guitar -- being able to run tests on them and dial in what the exact problem is, with no guess-work -- is incredibly fascinating.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the parallel is just too strong for me: to do a good setup, you really have to understand how the guitar works as a whole. Perfect example: most people will think that they can lower the action by tightening the truss rod. Really, once the truss rod is set where it needs to be, you have to work with the nut, the saddles, the frets and the neck angle. It's the lemon water of guitar setups: people using it thinking it's a cure-all, when in reality you have to understand what is causing the problem on the guitar and have the observational ability to look at the instrument as a whole.
It's like that old saying. If the only tool you've got is a hammer, every problem's going to start looking like a nail. Every once in a while I fuck something up on my guitar because I'm trying to do something I don't understand how to do.
I can see it's the same with RBTI (no surprise there -- universal concept). You have to be able to see the whole picture and take every aspect into consideration, or you can end up making huge errors in judgment.
Again, that's why I'm holding off on RBTI. I really would like to study this but I have so much on my plate (no pun intended...RRARF...get it...yeah. Fuck me)....
I forgot what I was talking about. But yeah, cool stuff :D There could be a new phrase in the future, too, for someone who's a 'gearhead' but with nutritional stuff. And you'd be able to say that now because it's entering the realm of mechanical reality with these measurements and legitimately scientific approach.
Or you could just use the word 'geek.'
I think I'm getting a little too excited. I wonder if Challen's ever seen someone who's main problem with fluctuations in their numbers was nerding out so hard every time he told them what was wrong that they pissed their pants. Maybe only in my imagination.
William
ReplyDeleteDr beddoe took advantage of his closeness with Reams after reams died.
The notion reams singled him out is based on a lie
William
ReplyDeleteDr beddoe took advantage of his closeness with Reams after reams died.
The notion reams singled him out is based on a lie
@Jib:
ReplyDeleteon one hand your guitar story does not relate to this at all, but on the other hand your example is just as perfect as can be.
And like with guitars: there will be people who will have others tune them, but there are others like you who would spend time on learning how things work and how to recognize even small mistakes and adjust accordingly.
Both of these groups of people will have their place, but you would not have someone with limited tuning experience mess with a rockstar's guitar the night before the show, would you? Too much depends on it.
Now ask yourself, if you have a critical health condition, would you go to a beginning consultant who would does not ask advice from a senior consultant? I would not.
But if someone has no critical health issues, and the beginning consultant takes the time to explain why things work the way he / she says they work AND can recognize his / her mistakes, I believe there is a place for both.
@Moi
I am unfamiliar with that info, and so was wrong to state that Dr. Beddoe was his star student as a fact. Thank you for sharing!
William
ReplyDeleteIf you look at the letter that is supposedly reams last words you will notice reams did not sign it.
Ty
T hereare a few things to look out for and you can eat out. I can't type it all out on my phone here. Don't worry about all that other stuff. Just get outside for some fresh air occasionally! Tall to challen. He eats out at restaurants quite a lot.
Betty
I've emailed you.
Kellt
T hankyou!
Jib
ReplyDeleteI 'ma nerd too and learning it. Been hanging out with challen. Pretty awesome.
Jib,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your thoughts. Do you take time to play the guitar some too? :-)
Jib wrote:
"AS,
About sharing those links -- no worries. I do that kind of stuff all the time too XD Oops!"
Yeah, it's hard for me not to share... and to not get excited about stuff like this. I hesitated to post that link to the fish page because of the religious nature of that website. But just ignore that part - a good (non-religious) list like that is hard to find :-)
Jib wrote:
"I will say I like the idea of this RBTI stuff becoming more or less readily accessible to everyone in the country at some point or another -- it's kind of like, not everyone needs to be a farmer, but if we had more local farms everything would probably be a lot more sustainable. If there were a handful of people in every state who knew what they were doing with RBTI like Challen does, that would be light years ahead of where things are now.
And I think that'd be fantastic. So at the very least I'm really appreciative that Matt's getting the word out on this guy and trying to give him the recognition he deserves. No need to go crazy about it and just blindly 'hop on the bandwagon' but in the same sense, though I don't worship Matt, I think he has a lot of pretty brilliant ideas, and I've turned a lot of people on 180 Degree Health because I really believe his ideas are worth listening to and that getting it out to a wider audience could potentially help a lot of people."
Yes, my sentiments exactly. While I don't worship Matt (or anyone), I do have a great deal of respect for him and his research/writing skills - and definitely his open mind. And in the same respect, though I don't have the same religious beliefs as Challen, I can certainly appreciate his work as well. Religion aside, he clearly has a true passion for and belief in RBTI. And seeing it work time and time again has to make him feel great.
Jib wrote:
ReplyDelete"...being able to run tests on them and dial in what the exact problem is, with no guess-work -- is incredibly fascinating."
That fascinates me too!
William wrote:
"...but there are others like you who would spend time on learning how things work and how to recognize even small mistakes and adjust accordingly."
That would be me. That's what makes it hard for me to not go poking around lol :-)
Moi wrote:
"I 'ma nerd too and learning it. Been hanging out with challen. Pretty awesome."
Maybe that's the solution to my need-to-research dilemma, eh? lol :-)
AS - glad to see the Jewfish (whatever that is) is Halal :).
ReplyDeleteanyone heard of Bob Hedges at re-mineralize.com who does rbti? or is he one of the fakers? he has all of the supplies, too. here's the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://re-mineralize.com/supplies-supplements/
but he believes in eating a raw veg diet mostly juicing, so he lost me there. haha.
Anonymous
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of explanation are you looking for? I could ramble on but to save us both what do you want to know?
Team smith
No one knows the numbers or diet like challen.
AS
Challen will teach anyone!
this blog used to be cool
ReplyDeleteSure. here is simple. Its a load because the theory doesn't consider how the body actually works.
ReplyDeleteRE: Purchasing RBTI Kits
ReplyDeleteFor those of you looking to purchase a RBTI testing kit -- $400 is not required.
(Details on the prices of individual components here.
All told, you can purchase a complete testing kit for around $150 at the high end.
Please note that individuals making their living from RBTI will be purchasing these same supplies in bulk at wholesale, for pennies on the dollar.
If you're putting down $400 for a kit, you're paying at least a $200-$300 retail markup.
(Should I add, 'For everything else, there's M******card'?)
Taylor/Hobson
Taylor
ReplyDeleteUmmm. No. Not true.
You can put together a shit kit if you want to piecemeal, but it is not the same thing. The refractometer alone, a good one (the cheap ones are no good) costs close to 150.
Yes, Challen gets a wholesale price for his test kits, but his wholesale price is a lot higher than 150.
Can I ask why you are so intent to tear down the rbti when you have not even tried it?
I came here to Challen's office to tweak something, and he found the problem and turned it right around. I am watching people come in and out of here allday long who were dying of something or very ill from another, and they feel awesome. In fact, there was a woman here who was dying in her 20s of breast cancer. She went to see reams in his day, and she is still alive today! She's in her 50's and just started coming to challen to tweak her health a little, and maintenance. Sounds pretty awesome to me.
I don't understand why you are trying to make Challen out to be a money monger. He is anything but! I have only seen him do for people since i have been here! In more ways than the rbti.
Now he knows this. He has a knowledge that no one else has. He needs to eat and he has bills. HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO CHARGE FOR THAT!
What is wrong with people??????
Some are overly cautious/cynical from trusting several others "with the answer" of what'll cure them that ended up never panning out. Some are poor and trying to cut as many corners as possible. Some are physically healthy but still have psychological issues. Some are just starting their journey. Only a handful here seem to be truly overall healthy for the most part.
ReplyDelete-Anonymous
OK, before everyone freaks out over the prices:
ReplyDeleteconductivity meter, $ 60,-
UREA and pH kit $ 100,-
non-temerature corrected refractometer $ 91.99
What is missing? pH color cards. Shipping? Temperature correction on the refractometer would be nice and is advicable, but the only one on pikeagri would be $ 95,- more as the one above, so the $ 150,- that Moi said would be not overpriced.
Without wanting to get in to details, but I personally do not like the cheaper Dist4 because I had accuracy problems. So I use the Cardy twin cond (add another $208,-).
As for the teststrips over the pH reagents: pH paper or test strips are fun and give you a quick check if you are on the road, but are not accurate.
Now I understand that this is over the price that Challen asks, and he will probably not have the Cardy Twin Cond, but will have tested the meters he sells and will have one he thinks is best.
The thing is that we make an advice based on the numbers. We need to be able to trust those numbers, and most who tested several cheap meters have found them to be terrible inaccurate.
Challen may make a buck or two on the kit, but I can not believe he can make two hundred.
If you want to save some, consider at least buying he pH-urea kit, since it has a foam block to keep things tidy, the pH reagents and the proper UREA reagents.
William,
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly it. I know how to do some things with guitars, but I'm a novice. My friend has 40+ years of experience. Some repairs are absolutely ugly. A mandolin he got in once - the fretboard was in 11 pieces, several of which were warped, the body was all torn up - it was basically scraps of wood, but the person wanted it all original and put back together because it was an old family heirloom.
Took him 10 months, but he did it. And someone with that kind of experience is the only person to trust with that kind of work. There are lots of guitars in critical condition, and a lot of people will actually say they're beyond repair -- he's fixed a lot of guitars that people said were hopeless. He's good! And the only way to get that good is through direct experience, and lots of it.
I think it'd be cool to hook up with an RBTI practicioner, and that's what it seems like it'd have to come down to for me. I find RBTI interesting in the sense that it exists, and reading about it is cool, but I'm too anxious and tired all the time to try pursuing a consultation with someone XD (how's that for irony).
But if I ever pursue it, that's what I'd have to do. And a part of it is stubborness: why put in all the time and effort for RBTI, trying to learn it on your own, when you could just go to someone who knows what they're doing and if you wanted to learn that badly, ask them if they could teach you. I'm trying to apprentice with my friend for guitar tech stuff, and that's how it works.
Why sit there killing myself over how to do something when someone else has already done that, and figured out how to do it, and can teach me. In that sense it's good for you and good for them because you're honoring all their hard work.
Just throwing some more thoughts out there.
AS,
You're welcome :D And Oh yes. I play a lot =)
As for the religion thing, that's tough. I have no problem with it but it turns a lot of people off. Though I guess at the end of the day the people who are open-minded enough to appreciate what you're sharing will appreciate it. Throw something out there that might only resonate with 1 person out of a thousand...but when it reaches that 1 person it all comes together. RRARF is nowhere near the popularity of say, the Primal Blueprint, but it has reached a lot of people who've been open-minded enough to give it a shot and appreciate it for everything it has to offer.
William
ReplyDeleteAwesome clarification.
William,
ReplyDeleteP.S. So would you say that getting good equipment and collecting the data yourself and then going over that with an RBTI practicioner is reasonable?
With the tools...I keep bringing up guitars, I know...but it really makes a big difference. Crappy tools just aren't going to cut it.
What I want to know is if you think it's realistic for someone to learn how to test themselves and collect the data on their own, and how much the accuracy of that depends on the skill of testing and the quality of the equipment.
What's your take on this, if you don't mind?
William
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering how long you have been a tester.where did you learn
@Moi
ReplyDeleteFor me RBTI is a bit different as for most. I have never been interested in becoming the worlds greatest tester or consultant. But what has been by desire was to unite the RBTI community. To help bring them out of the shadow a bit. Provide a website that is easy to read through and provides basic info for the newcomers to get seriously interested. Many have promised help, but besides three who have shown some errors or flaws, none came through. I paid about $ 1000,- for lessons, and probably the same for more books and study guides, have been to the states to learn some more and started to believe about one and a half years ago RBTI would be helped with a piece of software that would make long distance consultation a snap.
So I started to learn how to program and have tested the software, which is now bug-free. During the process of programming there were some that contacted me and wanted advice. So I began telling them that it was easiest for me to use the program (and it really is), and gave them some advice. I was amazed to see how well and how fast that went. Nevertheless, once we get a better consultant who is willing to do on-line consultation with the software, I will quit doing that and focus my time and energy on other things that would help RBTI.
It transformed my life, so if I can I will do my best to help others see the benefits of it as well. (Hopefully) needless to say there is no financial benefit in all of this for me.
But when I see all the good folks in the community downsizing each other and saying the other is not doing as it should, I remember the letter you were referring to and the last wishes of the Doc. I know it was not signed by him, but I truly believe he wanted us to cooperate and work together.
I've heard about this software. Not particulars.can you give a basic synopsis of how that works?
ReplyDeleteWilliam, maybe I missed it, but what's your website? You should include a link to it in your blogger profile.
ReplyDelete-------
I'm trying the lemonade with molasses. It's really good! I realize I don't have numbers to go by, but it's just tasty and refreshing. And cheap.
@ timte:
ReplyDelete"The loss of energy foods pork, shellfish, nuts and chocolate are
also in the list of no-no foods for those with histamine intolerance.
Histamine is hardly present in fresh meat and shellfish though, but increases as they mature and getting older."
That's quite interesting!
"And yes, the Okinawans get less healthy while at the same time eating more grains now."
Where did you get that information that "they eat more grains?"
Sounds like paleo reasoning. It seems more likely they are getting
less healthy because they eat a more westernized diet higher in
protein and fat, white flour, additives and all the other junk, and containing a rising amount of refined sugar.
@ Aaronf:
"I've been thinking lately about what causes people to start developing health problems/gain belly fat/move away from A/B range... whatever. My theory here is that it takes a lot. I've been through majorly stressful times in the past in my life but I've always bounced right back once the stress is over. Not so this time and I think it's because I pushed my body too hard with all my ealth/exercise obsession. The body can take a lot, but there is a limit. Beyond this
point things begin to deteriorate and the body does the best it can."
OK, that is quite an extreme case of extrapolating your personal
experience. No, not everyone is exactly like you. For an increasing
number of people it takes very little to push them over the edge
(most likely due to bad luck with their genes and gut flora.) Some
people's body chemistry is messed up from birth. Not all problems are
caused by "health obsession," low-carbing and over-exercising.
@ Anonymous:
Don't bother arguing with Moi. She's met God (=Challen) personally. You can't argue with that kind of people. Unlike us mortals they know
everything.
@ Jib
Even though you haven't had any personal experience with RBTI whatsoever, you already know that it's something like the medicine of the future? wow...
@Brock (or anyone else with an opinion):
ReplyDeleteAre molasses strictly 'paleo'?
What about ripping the piss out of Richard Nikoley when he acts like a smug git? Is that paleo?
http://freetheanimal.com/2011/07/not-quite-the-human-zoo.html#comment-75158
@ William
ReplyDeleteThanks for shedding some light on how this RBTI thing works. There are far too many contradictions here, like "it is very precise and reproductible" vs "it can't be explained / has to be experienced," "it is very easy to learn and do" vs "it can only be practiced effectively in a resort-style setting" etc.
Han's
ReplyDeleteMoi did meet god!!!!
When she met Challen . I had known her for 5 months. She had tried everything that was available.
She was puking everything she ate back up, Having massive panic attacks, Heart racing, Migraines, Diahhrea, Couldn't get out of bed. She has 2 young children and had to send them away to live with her husbands parents because she couldn't look after them. Was actually depressed to the point of thinking about just giving up and ending it all. Then she met Challen. And within a few weeks my friend Moi sounded like a normal human being. !
So Hans I'm wondering why you are so threatened by Moi and her recovery? Why do you need to attack something you don't understand?
She is trying to help people here.
Moi ~
ReplyDeleteHi there. Thanks for your response.
The refractometer alone, a good one (the cheap ones are no good) costs close to 150.
Please indicate the "perfect" refractometer Challen recommends, brand and model. I will be happy to adjust my previous estimates.
It seems you've misunderstood me on a few things.
Before I address the rest of your comment, I'd like to ask: have you previously commented on the RBTI-related posts under a different name/handle?
Your comments are remarkably similar to those of 'Original RBTIer', who has mysteriously fallen silent since you began posting.
Thanks in advance for your clarification.
Taylor/Hobson
William ~
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the thread.
Just an off-topic note, since I noticed you're having trouble with blocked posts: Blogger has an automatic spam filter that will often block comments that contain numerous URLs/links.
You can try reposting the URLs with the with the formatting and prefixes removed, like this:
websiteDOTcom/blah.html
Another option is putting the links on your blogger profile page.
Hope this helps. :-)
Taylor/Hobson
Tell em Pip! Fear of the unknown can keep you from seeing something right in front of your face. I am keeping an open mind on rbti at thus point. I do feel it has value just not sure if it will help my cancer heal or not. Thanks moi for trying to help us all. Matt hats off to your mad scientist soul. Xo haggis
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"but do you think there’s any reason I published this shot on my blog other than that I think it’s adorable?"
ReplyDeleteYeah, I do have my suspicions.
But at any rate, at least you didn't go into a swimming pool, and stand "stationary" beside three 8-10 year-old girls with a great big smile in your face (and possibly an even bigger bulge in your pants) as they frolicked and splashed about in the water.
Maybe if you had kids you would feel differently about this. And maybe if this post was by say, Don Matesz or Mark Sisson - real men who don't frequent children's social networking websites like Twitter - then I could believe it was an honest oversight to publish a picture of children in their swimsuits. But in the month or so that I've been reading this "Free the Animal" website, the author has:
* BRAGGED about his sexual conquests and how he is going to write a book about them
* ATTENDED and given a talk at a sleazy pick-up conference
* RAILED against how the government interferes in people's lives, stating that he should be able to do what he wants
* PUBLISHED photographs, not just of children in swimsuits, but also of his computer (a device often used by perverts to facilitate immoral self abuse)
* REVEALED that he lives in California, America's most immoral state.
You do the math...
I give up. After removing all the links and trying for the 6th or 7th time, my post showed up in the blog, but mysteriously vanished without a trace. (no I am not talking about the post I removed myself).
ReplyDeleteJust in case this post does make it: anyone with questions can contact me using the contact form on rbti dot info.
Thank you all for this wonderfull discussion.
Taylor
ReplyDeleteThere is no mystery. The original handle was too long to type out on my phone which has the screen the size of a peanut.
As for the rest, I have nothing to prove. Just relating my experience. Some will be open to it, and others, like yourself, will spend way too much energy trying to disprove it. Makes no difference to me. I am living again.
Hans
I have never in my life been religious. But you are absolutely right. I did meet God. He is not Challen, but he did tell me to go to Challen. And guess what. I went from dying in a wheel chair at 100 pounds, to taking a vacation and walking around on my own two feet digesting food and weighing a good 165. It's only been 6 months.
I am meeting people every single day with the same type of story while I am here. If God showed me this truth, and I sit here and deny it, what does that man for me? P.S. I still haven't gone to a church. But I do believe in God. And I will say that outright. Can everybody see that????
I fell (literally) to my knees and prayed to God. I told him I would do WHATEVER he told me to do to get better, if only he would tell me. And the next day I spoke with Challen. 3 days later I was making pancakes for my kids.
I'm not sorry that threatens you. I speak because there are people out there needing answers. And if even one person can get the miracle I have, it was worth dealing with the haters.
I know what I know and I know what I have seen. I will not allow anyone to talk me out of it. Nor will I provide proof. I don't need to. it's simply your choice to try it. How's that for throwing the scientific method out the window.
William,
ReplyDeleteSo the rbti.info website is yours? Good to hear from you. I came across a software program for RBTI the first time I researched RBTI - very interesting. Wonder if it was the same one you were talking about. I don't want to say the name of it. I'll let you decide if you want to share that. Anyway, thanks for your input here :-)
Lorelei aka Hawaiigirl wrote:
ReplyDelete"AS - glad to see the Jewfish (whatever that is) is Halal :)"
Ha! Ever had Jewfish? I haven't :-)
Oops! That was supposed to say...
ReplyDeleteAnyone ever had Jewfish? I haven't.
Hate not being able to edit comments. Guess if I would log in with a profile I could delete/repost, huh? lol :-)
Moi,
ReplyDeleteThank you for caring enough about other people to take the time to share your experience! :-)
Moi wrote:
"AS
Challen will teach anyone!"
I know and that is really great that he does that. I'm giving it some thought. How long do you plan to hang out with Challen? Do you feel like you've gotten a good understanding of it so far? Or do you think it'll take a lot more time? I know it would take a good bit of time to learn even half of what Challen knows... but just wondering how long to pick up enough to maybe get started helping/guiding others (myself) and then call Challen to fill in the blanks as needed, of course.
I'm a fast learner anyway and grasp things pretty quickly - especially when I have a strong interest in it.
Anyway, still just thinking about it. On one hand, it would be good timing for me at this point. But on the other, I'm thinking maybe wait to see how things go with Matt's experience with Challen before deciding. I don't know. Will see - one day at a time :-)
@Moi - Thanks for sharing. I know that most people believe that health and nutrition are a simple matter of science, but there's so much we don't know about our bodies.
ReplyDeleteAnd that means we need to humbly recognize that there are many things that could be true that we might not not know yet.
Anyone know how to delete a comment? Seems my comment above has got Nikoley and his 'yes men' followers all hot and bothered and I wouldn't want to damage his proud 20-year blogging record of never having taken a hit or even "broken a sweat" during an internet joust. He's the baddest man in paleo don't you know?
ReplyDeleteSo yeah, the comment clearly has nothing to do with RBTI anyway so Matt or anyone else who knows how to delete comments go ahead and take it down. I only put it up here after Nikoley banned me and selectively deleted some of my posts in our little tete-a-tete (making a mockery of his professed love of free speech), including the one above that was a response to a question from another one of his commenters (who is probably wondering why I apparently haven't answered her!)
I never normally post on blogs, especially "troll" comments and arguments like this shit, but seeing Nikoley's latest post where he basically publicly bullies 2 of his readers for daring to disagree with his belief that people who vote or appeal to the government for help are basically "parasites" who "steal" money that they haven't earned from others.
Then one of his sheep-like "yes men" readers suggested (without a hint of irony) that he should take legal action and sue me (for calling him a pervert). LOL. If anything shows that they are all a bunch of bull-shitting posers, its that. Pontificating about how "parasites" get the government to do their "dirty work" as Nikoley puts it, and how they just want to be left alone to fend for themselves and look after themselves, but then as soon as a little internet "troll" slags them off on the internet, it's a whole different story. Pathetic.
In fairness to Nikoley he did actually dismiss this suggestion. As right-wing as his views are, at least he sticks to them (well some of them, be good if he manned up on his freedom of speech views), unlike his grubby little sheep.
BAAAAAA! BAAAAA! BAAAAA!
Moi,
ReplyDeleteNice to see another believer on here!
God reveals himself to those who
seek him.
Betty
@Marty
ReplyDeleteWho the heck is Nikoley and what are you blathering on about?
Does it have anything to do with this post?
If not, GTFO. Your posts are gross and random.
Come on Anonymous, get with the program. Nikoley is the baddest man in paleo. He doesn't take any shit from anyone. If bloggers were animals, he'd be the fucking honey badger:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg
Not discrediting the positive testimonials from people, but it would be much more easy to believe if they left all the Jesus shit out and if the science behind it wasn't so wishy washy.
ReplyDeleteTo anyone on here who has experience with RBTI personally:
ReplyDeleteAfter doing some further digging, the picture I'm getting is that even if an RBTI protocol is not followed precisely, there is incremental benefit that can be achieved for health preservation (if you aren't too far down the road of illness) by following some of the basic principles - i.e. avoiding no-no foods, drinking distilled water, following individual recommendations as closely as possible. I present this position in contrast to the idea that it's "all-or-nothing." I think this is an important distinction to establish for those of us who aren't terminally sick, to help us determine whether a "noble effort" toward following RBTI is worthwhile. If the benefits are somewhat proportional to the compliance to protocol, I think it's worth serious consideration based on what we've learned so far. If total submission to every minute detail is absolutely required to receive any benefit, it's a tougher sell for someone like me who is not (visibly) on death's door.
Any thoughts on this?
Ty
TJK- i don't have experience with RBTI at all but i've been wondering the same as you. it seems though that if one is going to work with challen, it might be a waste of time if you think you can't follow it precisely because of how his recommendations, personally for you, are based off the patterns he sees in your numbers which might be all over the place if you don't follow the rules exact. but if you aren't planning on working with challen, you could probably benefit from following some of the basic principles and see how that makes you feel. i think we can all learn a lot from rbti and i too think that it could be more appealing if it wasn't so cut and dry. after all, we are human... not robots. but then again, this isn't just another diet... this is way more strategic (in the most simple way) than going paleo or raw or vegan. which is why i can see this being mostly for the very very ill. but for those of us who are doing pretty good and want to maintain, it'd be nice to know that following some of these rules could help!
ReplyDeletei know what it feels like to be sick and hopeless. and when you're at that point, you'll do anything to feel better. even sticking to such a strict protocol.
not sure if i'm correct here but those are my thoughts!! :)
I'm with you on that one, TJK. Healthy people can surely incorporate some of these ideas to stay healthy and get even healthier.
ReplyDeleteI've already started skimming the raw milk I use to make Kefir. I am using that cream in coffee and to make butter, but I've cut back on overall fat intake nonetheless. I am going to cut out chocolate, and I never really eat shellfish.
Since I am pretty healthy, I am simply incorporating the new ideas that Matt's RBTI adventure is bring to me. Balancing salt/sugar/water/minerals sounds like a good idea to me. I am a "high consumer" of water, always have been. Bringing up salt/sugar/minerals to balance this is already showing me some good results. I make sure my salt & sugar are high quality, minimally processed and mineral rich.
I muscle test almost everything I ingest as well.
I do wonder about the nuts. I agree that they are a monster to digest when chewed, but I have a vitamix and can liquefy them just fine. Nut quality is another factor. Would a few mineral-rich, organic brazil nuts blended to a liquid consistency pose digestion problems for ME and my digestion? I think probably not. That doesn't mean I'm going to snack on planter's peanuts out of the can, though.
Life without chocolate sounded bleak at first, but then I ate some coconut macaroons and all was well. :-)
Peace,
Cameron
Thanks for weighing in, Keriann. To take it a step further, it would be nice to know exactly which of the general rules have the most impact (either + or -). This would help contextualize them and give people like us a framework that would help determine a priority-weighting to each tenant. For example, I've heard multiple times that pork is particularly damaging (energy-stealing) to all people in any form. That's not a tough one to follow, but would appear to have significant impact. What kind of impact would drinking distilled water have over drinking mineralized water? What about eating the right foods at the wrong times vs eating them at the same foods at the right times?
ReplyDeleteSince RBTI is so precision-
oriented, it would be interesting to see if anyone has cataloged a weighted scale of some sort that can put into perspective the relative benefit of following each "rule." I'm sure that's wishful thinking as everyone probably would respond differently, but if any alleged health program had the capability to quantify such a list based on empirical test results, it seems RBTI might be a candidate.
Any other thoughts on my original question?
Cameron, I think we're pretty much on the same page. I too have decided to start incorporating some of the general RBTI rules for now such as cutting out pork/shellfish/unclean meats. I don't know my numbers yet, but I figure it won't hurt me to start adding a little lemon (not in therapeutic doses) to my water. I am maintaining my avoidance of PUFA-rich foods too as I think Ray Peat is onto something there. With he and RBTI both being out on nuts, I probably will just steer clear from them and the veggie oils. I fully intend to try to adhere to Challen's protocol when he interprets my numbers, even though my travel schedule won't make it easy. The way I see it, it is very low risk, and potentially very high reward - a no-brainer combination. I know some people are still skeptical of the validity of the method and understandably so, but when I see so little downside and so much potential upside, the choice of whether or not to investigate deeper gets pretty easy.
ReplyDeleteBut that's just me.
Ty
Ty,
ReplyDeleteI think you're right about being able to incorporate some general guidelines to improve overall health (and to prevent disease). I wonder if that might be part of Matt's goal. To first find out if it's legit, and then to explain it in a more accessible way, telling us which things are for a healing protocol (like distilled water, for example) and which are universal guidelines (like pork or chocolate).
I told Matt that if RBTI does what it says, I'd much rather have my numbers checked regularly than go to an invasive gyno or get a mammogram. So I want to see what it can do to prevent disease, but also to diagnose it.
I'm really looking forward to what he has to say, because (like you) I think combining RBTI (if it's true) with other information about long-term, subtler issues (like PUFAs) would be really beneficial.
Matt - where'd you go?... Eagerly awaiting an update:)!
ReplyDeleteIs this RBTI thing actually for real? I mean really? I've been waiting for Matt to come and do the whole "You've been punked!" announcement to show everyone how easily they can be whipped into a guru woowoo frenzy.
ReplyDeleteSo one again I am lured by the novel sights exotic smells eminating from the 180 Degree kitchen only to sink my teeth into the latest installment to find that, much like a portion of raw fibrous leafy vegetables, there is much to chew on but very little of practical use for me to digest absorb and assimilate, apart from one or two nuggets which may or may not be of much use. (much like the resistant fibre found in said vegetables that ferment to produce Short Chain Fatty acids in the gut which may or may not be usable by the body for other functions - the practicalitity and even at times the substance seems a little tenuous.)
ReplyDeleteCatty P
The comments used to be the most interesting part of this blog. I dont understand why You have gone into this territory matt. I think you have lost a lot of readers with this stuff. I would have started a different blog or soemthing because most people here are not on their deathbeds looking for some quack cure. Just everyday people who have gained some weight and feel a little off. Just sad to see this blog populated by total weirdos now
ReplyDeleteAnonymous with the weirdo comment.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure that people on their deathbed are looking for some quack cure.. And i'm not sure what's quack about it. It's real cures for real people. I find it really amazing that people want to attack something they have no knowledge of.
I lost 16 lbs on this program so I'm guessing it may also help people who were looking to loose a little weight.
I actually wasn't looking for weight loss. I was looking to recover from depression and chronic fatigue. The weight loss was a added bonus. Even though most people would not have considered me overweight I was more volumptious than I would have liked, I feel very comfortable in my body now.
I'm not sure why you think these posts are not relevant. Personally I feel these posts are very important for those that wish to maintain their health and those that wish to recover their health.
A little off can lead to a lot off over time and RBTI can correct things before you get too far down the rabbit hole.
Many people who feel healthy are a heart attack waiting to happen.. I'd sure love to know a few years in advance if that was gonna happen to me so I could correct it..
Pipparoni
ReplyDeleteIm not gonna argue about whether this stuff is helpful or not. I admitttedly dont know much about it and dont really care. I liked this blog because it helped me stop caring so damn much about my "health" all the time. I think Matt helped a lot of people with this and now this whole thing just goes in the opposite direction.
If anyone is super desperate for a cure then maybe this is something to try but for the everyday person who cared to much about health in the first place, all the stuff is just not worth looking into getting back into that obsessive mindset that a lot of people have.
@ Anonymous..
ReplyDeleteCue people arguing they're "not obsessive", they've actually been set free and can eat almost ANYTHING now (except for what the Bible and//or Challen says are No-No foods, which is the same forever yet changes with your numbers), thinking about their "numbers" every day and running their pee through a home-made lab kit on a regular basis is totally not obsessive, and their minds are now peaceful and at ease in 3.... 2.... 1.....
Wow. Anonymous, you are kind of a jack ass. I bet Matt wishes you were one of the readers he "lost." Matt fancies himself a health researcher. He doesn't exist so you can stop obsessing about food. It isn't his job to only present information that doesn't trigger your neurosis. If you don't like what you find here, don't read it. For the rest of us who have truly inquiring minds; are curious about ways to improve our health, AND have the self control to avoid obsession, this is an interesting jaunt into a method we would most likely never check out for ourselves without the info being brought to light on this site.
ReplyDeleteGo, Matt!! :)
desert dweller
I find it hilarious also....why do some people go ape shit when something new and different is thrown in the mix.I feel Matt adds to the health community by large amount....with his new and different views.He starts up the "maybe carbs are not as bad as everyone says" and gets dogged BUT for some strange reason alot of LC gurus are pushing moderate carbs now;)
ReplyDeleteAnd this new and weird stuff,with testing of urine and saliva like a fish tank keeper does,may just be a cure for my non-life threatening symptoms if just being on some days and off others.I wanna know the way to keep my body at its peak and so I am all for Matt and his traveling the world looking for the next guru THING.;)
We probably should send Matt off next to the Himalayas with a backpack,a liter of maple syrup and a path.I have a feeling that the truth lies there somewhere.LOL just kidding Matt.
ReplyDeleteIt's sort of hard to tell how many Anon assholes there are (since they're Anon), but you/they don't seem to understand the concept of skeptical curiosity. It's perfectly possible to ask questions and attempt understanding without being gullible and drinking the kool-aid of some quack theory.
ReplyDeleteBut speaking of quack theories, how do you explain the sudden and timely reversal of Pipa and Moi's health? Just a coincidence? That thyroid cancer that survived two rounds of chemo was all set to disappear on it's own anyway?
I haven't seen enough evidence yet to feel comfortable saying what RBTI can and cannot do. But unless everything Matt has posted about RBTI is a lie, and Pippa is in on it (and has been for several months), and all the discussions on the Yahoo group are some sort of elaborate prank, I can say that -something- is going on. Something very interesting. And I'm glad Matt is looking into it.
As for myself, I can already say that the lemon water is intriguing. Reams and Challan are hardly unique in their recommendation of it, but regardless I tried it for just the first time this week because of the RBTI investigation and the results were immediate and obvious. My blood sugar control was pretty good before, but now it is rock solid. I am completely awake and alert all day without any drowsy moments, and even when I'm so hungry my stomach is doing backflips my hands remain steady enough to build a house of cards. This is real. This merits further reading.
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William, I found your site and read through it. Very interesting stuff. Thank you for putting it up there.
P.S. "Hart" is an animal. The organ in your chest is a "Heart". Just FYI.
Wolfstriked -
ReplyDeleteMatt has alread been to the Himalayas over 10 years ago and gained many valuable insights.
Brock
ReplyDeleteI did not try anything conventional for my thyroid. That cancer was a roman with best cancer who I actually saw a few days ago here. She said it's all fine though. Mixed stories lol.
I would not promote the lemonade without knowing yournumbers though. This pogram is very exact.
Jumping in...
ReplyDeleteI am not in dire health. I am not obese. I do not suffer from mental health issues or any other diseases (that I currently know of). I am one of those of us who have a little weight to lose, but tried every other style of eating out there.
Here's a way of eating that's relatively easy to implement and has apparently really helped people, so hells yes, I'm going to be interested. Frigging sue me for giving some aspects of this a try!
I would love to able to afford the kit et al.; however, I can't at the moment. Again, frigging sue me.
I'm not ashamed to say that yes, I have jumped on many bandwagons as of late: a year ago, it was primal; a few months ago, it was Peat; and two weeks ago, it was RBTI. I gained 10 pounds on both primal and Peat. I felt good for a few days on both, but each made my stomach go in the opposite direction that it needs to be going.
I lost 3 pounds in two weeks following just the basic eating way of eating that I've been able to deduce from reading these comments. I gave up working out while attempting Peat, but I love working out and have started back to high-intensity aerobic work.
I also started drinking the lemon water, but not as much as others say they're doing. Just 2x a day with a little lemonade mixed in. It has helped my btwn meal fogginess and I don't feel like I need to eat every couple of hours. I just feel normal again -- and actually happy. I feel like I can do things again.
So, I thank everyone who has commented or provided info, even though I can't afford the kit!
Yeah, well, I wasn't taking careful notes about who had what disease. :)
ReplyDeleteI know the program is exact and that it's lemon for some people and water for others. I'm just saying I tried it and it worked for me. I realize that I would have to pony up the $$$ for the testing kit though if I wanted to know more, and that's just not going to happen at the moment. I don't have any pressing health concerns that would really justify the cost.
For now I'm just avoiding the no no foods and drinking lemonade to see if I notice a difference. If I was going to spend money on anything it would be a good Breville juicer.
Condorman,LOL he has been around huh?
ReplyDeleteWhats weird is that matt turned me on to Peats pint of Hagen Daz every day.Past few days to a week I have given up artificial sweeteners and now eat a pint of HD and real soda all day.Today I had a subway roast beef sandwich with chips and a coke.Then a popcorn and a small coke at movie theater.Then I cam home and had a pint of HD and a coke.....and ate the same thing again 4 hrs later for dinner.WHats nuts is I feel amazing eating like this and I look good physically also.
I am all for buying the equipment and following this RBTI.Just need to hear some more about it.I have a feeling I may need the lemon water as I feel I may be too alkaline.Don't really know if that is why they say to drink it though.
ReplyDeleteLanie
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't think a little lemonade after meals is such a big deal. The problem is people doing it all day or trying to follow Matt's program. The thing is it can be dangerous because of the affect it has on the sugars. And that is not just cause one is ingesting sugar. THe actual lemon has an effect.
To everyone, yes, getting the no foods out of your diet is a HUGE deal. After all, the secret is in the diet.
The the wierdo
Sorry you are so neurotic you can't handle anything off the beaten path. Maybe this blog is not for you. From my take on Matt's work, is his purpose is to throw the wrench in the spokes. Doesn't seem like your thing.
GET OFF THE SEA SALT all those wwho think they use 'quality salt.' That stuff will kill you.
I have a question to the RBTI experts:
ReplyDeleteIf this theory really works so well and can cure practically every disease, why is it that Carey Reams, the inventor of the magic formula, died at age 75 while beeing obese and senile?
@Moi
ReplyDeleteWhat do you use instead of sea salt?
Jannis- you have your facts messed up but regardless yes Reams did died of health complications because he had a permanent military injury that no man (even Peat himself) could recover from. Not to mention he was FUBAR'd by conventional medicine and surgeries like so many are. Its no surprise you would be closed minded to anything that contradicts your Lord Peat. But would have thought you'd come up with something better than that to nitpick.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you call me close minded? I only asked a question about something I don't understand.
ReplyDeleteWhich military injury was that and why couldn't he recover from that?
Reams said that it was god himself who gave him the theory while he was praying. I, personally, would expect that a theory coming from god is able to cure complications caused by conventional medicine.
Could you perhaps explain in a little more detail how Reams was fucked up by conventional medicine? All the RBTI people say that the method cures cancer. Thus, Reams must have suffered from something worse than cancer, is that correct?