"Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years, rockin' my peers, puttin' suckaz in fear. Making the jam, rain down like a Mon-soon, listen to the bass go boom. Explosions! Ova-powerin', over the competition I'm towerin'!"
No I didn't have to look those lyrics up sadly. Had a car a few years ago that only had a tape deck. Found an L.L. Cool J tape at a thrift store, and well, I listened to it a lot until I traded that puppy in. Didn't realize until now that L.L. stands for "Ladies Love." Classic.
Anyway, wanted to let you homies know that my guest post at the Fat Head blog is official. Tom posted it late last night. Hope I make you guys proud. I put a little special sauce into this one.
CLICK HERE TO CHECK IT OUT
I could be wading into some low-carb shark-infested waters in the comments section. So far, so good, but if you see me getting disemboweled by a bunch of carbophobes over there, please step in and stick up for me. Or else you guys'll be in big trouble.
If you haven't seen the Fat Head movie yet, you should. Sure, it's got a low-carb bias, but all in all it is simply the best film ever made on the controversial topic of nutrition - for those with a good head on their shoulders and a sense of humor. Grab a copy. Makes a great gift for those that think that it's all about calories and exercise - but are unable to grasp the logic sequence of Gary Taubes in dry, 500-page behemoth book format.
Nice. Look forward to see what this stirs up, good timing especially after Nikolay's recent post....
ReplyDeleteGreat e-Zines BTW, really are pushing the envelope.
Hey Matt or anybody else, I'm writing a persuasive speech for my speech class about the health dangers of soy. I have most of my sources for soy dangers, but am looking for a solid source which basically states that saturated fats and cholesterol do not cause heart disease. A mainstream medical source would be like perfect. Anyone know anything?
ReplyDeleteThanks
BTW, Happy Birthday Matt!
L.L. Cool J is bombass. I Need Love. Mama Said Knock You Out. Radio.
ReplyDeleteI only drive cars with tape decks in them. Airbags are for wusses.
Vida
ReplyDeleteYou could use the recent meta-analysis by Krauss showing no association between saturated fat and heart disease:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajcn.2009.27725v1
"Conclusions: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat."
Scott
Gone for two days and lots of activity! Excellent post on FatHead!
ReplyDeleteSpent the last two attending my Grandma's funeral, she was 95 and gave birth to 21 kids, yes 21! She was born, raised and lived on the same property her whole life, by the ocean. She was in good health til her time.
She grew up on seafood, homemade bread, raw milk, and whole carbs. Raised happy kids with close family ties, which were all home to celebrate her memory.
Best quote I heard on the trip "She put lots of butter on her toast every morning!"
Was sad to see how omega6 and fructose have been changing the belt sizes on all my relatives though, and all the food that was present didn't help! People are still mired in low-fat and super refined foods!
Undertow, thanks for sharing about your grandma, sounds quite a lady. 21 kids is impressive in any culture!!!! Where did she live?
ReplyDeletehttp://cybernaut.com.au/optimal_nutrition/medical/contradictions.html
ReplyDeleteThanks Jedi! Nova Scotia, Canada was home. Right on the Atlantic ocean.
ReplyDeleteawesome. I spent Christmas in New Brunswick for the second time this year and loved it. The people were soooo welcoming :)
ReplyDeleteYep Down East people are very friendly, good example is not having to cook for last few days at my Grandmas, as the community around her supplied food to feed the hundreds of family that showed up! The fresh cooked fish chowders we awesome!!
ReplyDeleteI spent some of my younger years growing up in NB, great place!
saw the fathead blog...
ReplyDeletestarch as in not from vegetables? do you eat vegetables because they have fructose and some a good bit? which sources are best?
where do you get your starches from- what sources are best for a beginner?
what about things like OATS? quino? conrmeal? brown rice? what is considered a good starch
do you stick to adding fat to leaner cuts of meat to get more omega 3?
it seems pretty hard to come by to get in a good ratio of omega 3:6 even when cutting the obvious fructose and vegetable oil.
i think you are on to something sir, but you have no evidence persay to back it up besides the people here gaining weight, and yourself, a young relatively active male.
Woah, that's all I can say.
ReplyDeleteLittle more than a month ago, I stumbled upon your blog per chance. I got hooked quite fast and have been following this site ever since.
Before that, I never heard of this site. But ever since I started following this site, it seems like 180degreehealth shows up everywhere in the blogosphere. Kinda funny.
Well whatever, right now I'm kinda happy to be part of the experiment many people on 180 go through. I think you really might be onto something.
So at some point in the future, when your blog gets flooded by visitors, remember the I was there, before things got all crazy. :-P
Na, just fooling around here.
Matt you made front page headline at paNU blog.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.paleonu.com/
riiiight it's just a fad doc, and everybody in North America is healthy happy and lean.
ReplyDelete" He is also avidly mining the "I feel like shit, it must be my thyroid or adrenal glands" fad."
Just another stuck up doc, with the I am smarter then you because I read books and remember things. Oh wait; Matt reads books and remember things.. Oh it must be that PANU paid money for his remembering of the books he read that makes him smarter...
" I did not notice if he has any medical or scientific credentials, but his views of hormonal action lack nuance, to say the least."
Either way at least the word is getting out, more people need to know the processed food is bad and eating real whole foods is good.
Well and there's another blog covering 180 in such a short time. Can someone say avalanch?
ReplyDeleteFrom the article:
"None of us, read carefully, claims that "carbohydrates = disease"."
I agree and disagree at the same time. I think many paleo/primal sites claim to be open to a wide variety of macronutrient ratios. But it still seems very much like carbs are being demonized oh so often.
Uh, I forgot an "e" there. Meant avalanche of course.
ReplyDeleteKurt from PaNu is such a wanker, that guy is so sold on his "evolutionary metabolic milieu" principal that he has no patience for anything that might undermine its credibility.
ReplyDeleteI've tried to push him a few times in the comments, but his usual response is: "sure the Kitavans do fine on 70% carbs, but how do we know that they won't do better on 30%?" Good question, how will we know?
Then he goes on to write posts called "Carbs deserve the assumption of guilt until proven innocent" or something like that. That is obviously in direct conflict with the observations of many of the researchers that Matt quotes and I myself have read.
It's difficult for a lot of people to abandon to paleo lifestyle. It's very seductive: you lose weight, get to eat foods other people think are bad, you're all jacked up on adrenaline from all the fasting, and you get a nice superior complex because the only foods that humans can possibly thrive on are ones that were around before the neolithic era.
So many of these guys are bipolar. Kurt, Don Matesz, Eades and Richard all turn from nice to nasty in a second. You can see it in the comments they write on their and other people's blog. That to me is a sign of a poor diet, because on Matt's diet my mood has been more stable and relaxed than I can ever remember.
Sorry about the rant, I'm going to go eat some rice now. I hope the insulinz don't kill me!
Scott
And by the way Matt I can't read your blog anymore because you have no "credentials" and you are obviously hooking us with your fancy talk just to get us to buy your ebooks!:)
ReplyDeleteAlthough, it might be a good ides to have a page that does spell out the 180 ideas. Comments on other blogs have expressed curiosity but when they get here it might just look like a jumble of posts. Its very familiar to those of us that have kept up, but a newcomer might be overwhelmed. Just a suggestion.
Scott
^ Great idea, Scott. I've seen a few posts on other blogs saying all kinds of exaggerated things, like the 180 WOE includes all junk food you can eat, and *extremely* high carbs, even that it's high in fructose...
ReplyDeleteAnd here's a great quote from a zero carb blog:
ReplyDelete"If you want to be lean and strong like a carnivore, to never be hungry, to eat delicious fatty meat, be zero carb. I lift, I have so much energy, I am never hungry, I don't spend a lot of money on food, I don't need to think of ingredients. Carbs make us weak, sick and fat prey. Meat makes us strong, lean, defined, energetic predators and hunters. Meat makes us gods, carbs make us lower than worms."
@the quote above:
ReplyDeleteThat's funny. You know what this quote reminded me of? Vegans!
Feeling somehwat "superior" to everyone else, just because they think just eating from a certain food group makes them any better. The person who wrote it probably hates to hear it, but he's acting exactly like all those vegan extremists.
Well, I guess Kurt at least was right on one thing. The zero carbers are the Hisbollah of the Paleo movement just as vegans are the Hisbolla of the vegetarian movement.
Scott - that is a great idea. As a recent newcomer I did find all this HED stuff a little overwhelming... and I tend to pick up on stuff and catch on quickly, so I can see how this could all feel like a little much for some newbies. I have run across whole forum discussions that seemed entirely unclear on the principles of 180 (though granted no one seemed particularly open-minded about it either, too caught up in low-calorie, low-carb nonsense).
ReplyDeleteI agree there is a similar thread of harsh superiority between the Paleo and vegan crowds, despite the fact that their diets are so different on the surface. But, I suppose, if you're obsessively cutting out whole groups of food then it really isn't as different as it seems. I'm really not sure how anyone can hope to help people reach a better place in health and nutrition if all they're doing is beating people over the head with something, whether it's grass-fed steak or Tofurkey (though obviously I think the steak is the healthier choice).
I don't want to start any arguments about digestive tract length, but come on.
ReplyDelete"If you want to be lean and strong like a carnivore..."
Bulls? Horses? Wild pigs? Gorillas? There are lots of terrifying herbivores/omnivores. I don't know if Rhinos are lean or if they have fat under that armor skin.
And of course the HED camp is wrong too. I'm pretty sure Komodo dragons are terrifying and can run like big cat speed. And the big squeeze snakes can generate more force than any pansy ass mammal. Clearly being cold blooded is key, damn our fast metabolisms!
Clearly comparing humans to other species is the best way to figure out what is best for humans. Kung Fu has known this for centuries, otherwise there would be a "Human style". Duh.
Just read this random comment elsewhere: "...not like when I ate low carb for a few months because of a gestational diabetes diagnosis..."
ReplyDeleteA coworker of mine had the same, and it has been kicking around in the back of my head. Where could this come from?
What just struck me as a reasonable hypothesis to investigate: Being pregnant increases calorie requirements. Calorie deprivation causes insulin resistance. Maybe embryos tap into the same sugar that is reserved for the brain via insulin resistance. Maybe eating more starch would help.
Probably not something that ever going to be ethically testable.
Happy Birthday Matt!
ReplyDeleteOkay troops, I am somewhat disappointed with the lack of defense Matt is receiving from the frequent commentators who seem to appreciate or at least understand his work. The paleo and low carb crowd has gone on full defense mode and, paleo and low carbers being the dogmatists that they are, are berating Matt whether they are actually familiar with his work or not.
If you have the time, I think it might give these shallow dogmatists something to think about by leaving intelligent comments on at least one of these sites/urls:
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2010/02/04/guest-post-matt-stone-of-180degreehealth/
http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2010/2/5/180-180-360.html
http://freetheanimal.com/2010/02/richard-nikoley-has-a-low-body-temperature-and-edema-you-be-the-judge.html
I don't usually try to rally people this way but Matt's ideas are being distorted and misrepresented and it might help if people who have tried his approach were to chip in. Matt's ideas have helped quite a few people, based on the comments on this blog. If that is the case, don't you owe to him to at least leave a comment somewhere stating that?
Warning: The second url I gave is ran by a MD, one Kurt G. Harris. Like many MD's, he is so full of himself, he cannot, and will not try, to grasp or give credence to any argument other than his own. Nonetheless, it is fun to leave comments at his site and see him squirm, equivocate, engage in ad hoc arguments, and, when he gets mired in his own BS, declare the subject irrelevant.
I find no point in arguing with people that have their heads jammed up their ass. I would rather spend my time commenting with the readers that make it here and have real questions.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure if it had been 2yrs that I was following 180 and my fasting and PP BG was pegged at 85, I would be asking Doc Panu to explain. But not quite there yet! Guess my point is that I will try and defend Matt/180 with my own progress, but its only been 4 months for me.
Hopefully this round of publicity will get more people over here reading all the post, comments, ezine, podcasts and god forbid pay a couple bucks for Matt's excellent/funny ebooks and cookbook (by the way the cookbook is awesome, my immediate family loves the food I make now).
Really curious though; why does Dr. PANU have such a hate-on for Matt. 180 is so similar to PANU, except for starches are fully incorporated here. oh and does Doc PANU already forget that Weston Price cured kids with Nutrition and Physical Degeneration using fresh ground WHEAT gruel???
I have followed all the blogs, and my learning lead me right to 180 (fixing metabolic syndrome - as in fixing METABOLISM). Finding 180 and realizing one 'dude or bro' put all this historical/current info together.... wow!
The experiment and learning continues, thanks Matt for devoting a part of your life to doing this, I am sure that many many more will benefit in the coming future.
180 be rolling, they be hatin!
Good points, Undertow.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I want to make it clear that I was not demanding that people comment. Rather, it was more of a suggestion. My apologies to everyone it seemed otherwise.
In addition, I am not convinced that all the people commenting on those sites have their heads jammed up their ass. Some seem to be genuinely curious, but at the same time to willingly to follow people like Dr. PANU. Hence, the utility in commenting lies in demonstrating that there are intelligent responses to Dr. PANU's distortions and fallacies.
Myself and Ryan Koch have both attempted to have Dr. Harris explain Price, but he does what DML mentioned earlier and labels those arguments as irrelevant or some other fancy Latin term like non sequitur. He thinks Taubes is the final authority on the subject and is always throwing that in people's faces.
ReplyDelete"You think carbs are okay? Have you ever READ GCBC?" That is the extent of his argument.
But Undertow makes a good point, it's only been about 5 months for me so far, but its going great and I cannot imagine going back at this point.
I hear you DML, not everyone is jammed up. Following comments on the blogs out there is a real good way to see how this movement is flowing. The one good thing is that all these blogs are anti-SAD.
ReplyDeleteI will add that you have been a great voice for this path! So I see no harm in your rallying the troops!
Also was just thinking, there are probably about about 10 or 20 of us that should be at about 1yr on 180 around next Oct/Nov/Dec (just guessing the numbers could be higher or lower). That are vocal in the comments.
ReplyDeleteHopefully we are all still around with our updates. Like Swede said, there is no going back for me now either, this feels too good.
i've been eating HED for about 9 months now so i'll add in my experience. What i mainly wanted was to raise my body temp and not have cold hands/feet/nose so much and while HED has done others thing for me it hasn't done this.
ReplyDeletei'm 21 y.o male. i was healthy enough aside from the low temp, i'm not sure how low but not very, and i thought that if i could get my temp up then the other little problems (dry skin etc) would clear up too. i gained a little fat in the first month (must have been 5k+ kcals a day), i ate a lot of white bread so maybe i could have avoided that. anyway after that all i could gain was muscle, couldn't gain fat if i tried. also i was not really eating all that different to before, just more calories mainly.
up to now i've been eating more fat than carbs but i'm trying to reverse that and see if it makes me feel warmer. lots of carbs without much fat sucks though :/. the past few days i've also been taking kelp tablets, only about 1.5mg of iodine per day, but my temp has been 98-99 throughout the day. however i don't feel any warmer. i feel less warm during the day when my temp is higher and warmer in the evening when my temp is lower... i rarely actually feel cold but to have warm extremities all the time is what i really want. in an article about iodine i read it said that not sweating much (me) is a sign of lack of iodine in the skin and also that iodine is used by the whole body and not just the thyroid, so maybe i need a larger dose of it or just wait with the kelp tablets.
so my experience is that the basic HED principles of avoiding sugar and veggie oils (imo especially veggie oils) and eating as much carbs and fat as you want is the way to go and will improve many things for many people but for someone like me there is something else that is needed i.e the iodine.
Taffy, thanks for posting your experience. I hope you let us know how the iodine supplementation goes. I tried Iodoral for three days (twice a day) and I had to give it up on the 4th day because it made me brake out with acne EVERYWHERE!
ReplyDeleteI know I read that breaking out is supposed to be a form of detox from halide and what not but after being on a candida diet for 4 months, followed by zerocarb for 8 months and now have been eating HED for a little over 2 weeks I've become very weary of "detox" being used for any claims that seem to actually make things worse.
As far as my current HED experience (only 17 days), I gained weight and broke out during the first three days. Then after the 4th day my skin was really clear. Also I'm 6'2 so weighing 170 on zerocarb and reaching 185 after a few days on HED was actually something that I was happy excited about except for maybe a few extra pound around my stomach which seemed to had mostly gone away by the 4th day.
However my body temperatures were pretty low (average of 96) which I later found out it was due to my own mistake with taking the readings (i'll explain later).
So in a desperate attempt to raise my body temperature (what can I say after 8 months of patience on zerocarb, I am now very impatient lol) at the 7th day mark I took Iodoral, one pill after breakfast and one after dinner. I started breaking out immediately the day after. I also regained some weight around my stomach. I chose to ignore it and continue taking Iodoral but after just 3 days I just couldnt do it anymore as my face looked horribly plagued with acne so I stop taking it on exactly my 11th day on HED. Unfortunately I continue to break out even till this day yet at a much lesser degree but still it pisses me off that I was so impatient cause i have no clue if my current acne is still due to the iodoral or if it's now part of HED.
Now, what I meant by incorrect temperature readings is that i would just stick my digital thermometer under my armpit and leave it there until it gave me 3 beeps usually in 15-25 seconds. My readings were low, so after a little google search on Broda Barnes, I read that he left the thermometer under the armpit for 10 minutes. It's true that he used one of those mercury thermometers that aren't available anymore but I decided heck why not try the same with my digital. So I've been leaving it under my armpit for the full 10 minutes and my readings have averaged 97.9 in the morning and 98.6 in the afternoon/evening so I guess my temperature was probably fine from the beginning :S
I stepped on the scale today and I weighed 183 but after looking in the mirror it seems that I once again have lost much of the weight around my stomach that i regained with iodoral. Also it seems like my hunger is now starting to taper off a bit, before I was eating around 4000-5000 calories a day but not really on purpose, i just cook huge portions for my 3 meals and make sure not to leave until I'm full.
One thing that I don't like about HED right now is that my sleep is pretty shitty, i get like 5 crummy tosh and turn hours of sleep at night and then sometime during the day i get really tired and have to take a nap. The positives however are that I have been able to once again play soccer and lift weights at a decent performance, something that I could not do while zerocarb. Also like I mentioned my skin became really clear on the 4th day until I fucked it up with Iodoral supplementation and now I'm just currently hoping that it clears up again. Anyways sorry if this was sooo long but just wanted to share my small HED story.
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ReplyDeleteSo you say Iodoral made you actually gain weight? Now that is interesting. Are you sure it was the Iodoral? I don't wanna say it's unprobable, it just sounds weird to me at this moment. I'm supplementing with Iodine for two weeks or so and as far as I can tell, I've been gaining weight before that (which was and probably is a good thing for me) but it seems like I've gained a little more the last 1 or 2 weeks. However, I don't measure my own weight so this is only based on how I look and it certainly is not a significant gain, so I could be totally wrong here and just fooling myself.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, it just sounds weird to me, because if anything, from what I've heard iodine is actually usually accompanied with weight LOSS.
rosenfeltc, i'd guess that its better to wait until you are used to eating HED and your weight settles before trying iodoral. The body can only do so much at once. iodoral is i think 12.5mg or 50mg of iodine, way more than the 1.5mg i'm taking. and although my temp is 98-99, i wonder if my old 97 temp were low because i took them immediately. now i take by mouth and wait 10min. so i don't really know if this small dose has raised my temp. it doesn't feel like it. i'm sitting here with a 99.3 temp and still the cold extremities...
ReplyDeletemy sleep has been shitty for about 2 years now, i can't remember not waking up atleast once and once i do getting back to sleep can take minutes or hours. i don't know exactly when or why it changed but i don't think i did anything differently at the time. luckily during the day i feel fine and never sleepy. for me at least i think poor sleep is due to general life and emotional problems more than anything. sadly they are more difficult to fix :(
Just to get things straight, I'm not saying that Iodoral causes weight gain and acne. I just gave a detailed account of my 17 days experience with HED and my 3 days in the middle with iodoral. I did regain weight in my stomach and break out again right after supplementing with iodoral but correlation doesn't equal causation so it could be any other variables. In fact, I even said that I am currently still braking out eating just HED and It's been almost a week since the iodoral. It also seems like I have lost a lot of the weight I had regained around my belly but I have no clue if that is due to the iodoral or if it's any other variable effing with me.
ReplyDeleteI also used megadoses of iodine, though I'm backing off now (mainly because I ran out of it...) Anyway, it did made my acne somewhat worse, but that's one reaction I've heard again and again with iodine, and now I feel much warmer. I actually can go to sleep without using the air heater (I live in a friggin' mountain) and my hands are never cold. Who knows, maybe Iodine can indeed harm some people, but If I were you, I would try it slowly upping the dose.
ReplyDeleteOh, and late happy b-day, Matt!
Hi, Matt. Late happy birthady too. I left this comment at his blog, hope it doesn't get rejected, I spent quite some time in it:
ReplyDeleteYeah, yeah, I know what my name is... Please hear what I have to say, I don't actually like rice anymore :-)
Well, Kurt, if you excuse me, I find that the anger and harsness in many of your comments, not only here, but in other blogs, about Matt Stone tell more bad things about you than it tells me about Matt.
Matt seems to have a little prolem, though, in his way of expressing his ideas and, let's say, translate them into other's "language". If I may, let me state some factors and details of Matt's theories (and yes, I know I'm not Matt, but I hope he comes and shows his face, and stops being a pussy).
First, in 180, the fact that many paleolithic cultures had impressive health regardless of their macronutient ratios is accepted. This includes the kitavans and the skimos. However, at the same time, and this is where the major difference comes, there is the idea that the human body craves certain things for a reason. Yes, there are super stimuli, such as fructose or other drugs, but for whatever our bodies are historically (not to say genetically, as this may get somewhat muddy) adapted to, or that doesn't strive too far from the foods that keeped our ancestors (by which I mean both paleolithic and many neolithic groups) in good health this craving may have a physiological meaning, something which can be traduced to a benefit in the long term.
Matt promotes the fact that, whenever the human race has had access to fat and starch, it has consumed both in whatever quantities it senses pleased. He has also studied and worked around the fact that, just as Ancel Keys studies of starvation has shown, the human body eats it's way into homeostasis after deprivation. Eating refined carbohydrates, specially fructose which messes with leptin, vegetable oils and other frankendfoods not only is toxic, but also is, in a way, starvation. Obese people are starved people, and their metabolism is slow because of this.
...
...
ReplyDeleteDiets like those of the skimo has shown themselves to be very valid to a human born in it's prime health state. Also persistence hunting your food, going trough periods of starvation, and having 1 out of 3 of your children die. Matt considers many of the paleolithic charateristic conditions of some, not all, populations, to be stresses. He considers ketosis or restriction of a given macronutient a stress, including protein and probably fats (though most may be easily made from carbohydrate, carbs tend to taste like shit whitout them, and this may have a reason). He also considers that, even if our ancestors could live with all those stresses, and thrive, many of us can't. Intercepted heredity (having a bad start at life), low metabolism (or simply our bodies not functioning optimally), and, I think, maybe even soil depleteion are all factor which come into play in this.
Matt considers that taking measures such as avoiding whole macronutrients to cather to our weaknesses is, ultimately, counterproductive. This may not be the case if you didn't had such weaknesses to start with, but if you do, then things get complicated. From research of the literature, anecdotes form others, personal experience, and overall view of the matters, he has come to consider that just letting go, and eating the natural foods in whichever way your body craves is where healing is at. I don't know the first low carber that wouldn't go crazy on carbs if he had the real chance. Fear and symptoms stemming from a body maladapted to handle food may stop them, of course.
You said the problems with insulin sensivity came more from the liver than from overall insulin sensivity, and that even if eating carbs could help you with tissue sensivity, it would'nt mean a complete fixing of the problem. Well, avoiding them wouldn't make a difference in that precise aspect neither. We both know the problem is fructose and pufas. Yet for a given person, avoiding carbohydrates may be a stress that, in the long run, impairs healing. The very fact that introducing carbs to a diet can lower cortisol, improve t3 to rt3 ratio and, quite frankly, make food taste much, much better, is indicative of this. If you entered low carb with a sub-optimal health, that also augments the probabilities of your body not being able to handle the stress, which is pretty ironic.
...
A study of the literature on skimos showed they tended consumed relatively large quantites of protein. Also they never were on ketosis, which could indicate impressive gluconeogenesis (or carbs in the meat). They weren't just keto-adapted, I believe. "http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox/article_view?b_start:int=1&-C=" Inuit's livers where bigger than normal, is that suggests something. Yet gluconeogenesis from proteins wastes thyroid hormones like nothing else, and is a stress, no doubt. Only a good body, with good heredity could handle such conditions indefinitely, generation after generation. Also the extreme cold and harsh conditions, I think.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you are going to answer me with the argument of carbs=insulin=bad in a metabolic syndrome type body, get serious! Everyone here knows what type 2 diabetes is about. Now, the question is, how you overcome insulin resistance? You're certainly not an example of how to do it, nor the people commited to a restricted diet for life. That is just what Matt is all about, allowing the body to really heal. He may be wrong, maybe your case can't be helped, but that's no reason to dismiss his words.
Now, your commentary about carbohydrates being empty calories, that's just... Are you really someone interested in nutrition? Go do a little search in nutrition data. Yeah, liver is the ultimate micronutrient source, no doubt, but things like potatoes and yams are b-vitamins powerhouses and have been able to support health populations for centuries. They''re certainly less empty than lard or suet, that's for sure.
Kurt, were are no longer paleolithic people, genes are not all mighty, our puny bodies and pinched nostrils are a testament to that, and you should take that in mind when engaging in this topics. Many of what applied to them may no longer apply to us, unfortunately.
Thank you for your attention,
Rice lover.
“As a friend I implore you to see Stone for the manipulative, attention-seeking salesman that he is and stop paying attention to any of his medical opinions. He is only using your blog to drive traffic and sell ebooks to people who are depressed or worried about thyroids.”
ReplyDeleteThis guy, Kurt Harris, whatever he is doing is not working. He has that irritability and unpredictable manner of many others in the paleo - LC world. I wouldn't like that for me, at least. Oh, and Rice lover, he errased your post and now says you're just calling him names over the net. What happened. Bad sport, anyway.
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ReplyDeletehey el66k, can you go into a little more detail on the positive effects that you received on iodine dosages? I've been thinking of trying Iodoral again (this time ill just take 1 pill a day instead of 2) mainly because i read it may be helpful in killing candida which if it's true it might benefit me because one thing I've noticed eating HED (thus lots of potatoes and brown rice lol) is that my tongue has gotten whiter with thrush again.
ReplyDeleteI am actually starting to develop a theory about doctors, superiority complexes and how all this could actually relate back to our hunter&gatherer days where we lived in small tribes with cultish rituals which is somehow wired into our genetics. But I guess I better keep that to my own for now.
ReplyDeleteHahahaha, I mean, the guy uses the word "implore", as a friend! He sounds like an attorney defending molested childs in a trial. Lol, he's got issues (and that comes from me).
ReplyDeleteAlso just a general question to every 180 out here, have you guys/gals stopped brushing your teeth with regular toothpaste with fluoride? or is it not that big of a deal? It just seems that it might be kinda counterproductive for me to resume Iodoral treatment and brush my teeth with regular toothpaste with fluoride if indeed the iodine expels the fluoride out of the system
ReplyDeleterosenfeltc, I felt modest improvements. I think my problem with Iodione, or halides, or whatever wasn't very big. Mainly my resistance to cold, but not much more I can indentify. I would think (and of course I may be wrong) that improvements can be related to how much you actually react to it. It is known that iodine deficient people can become even hyperthyroid when they get a somewhat big quantity of Iodine. It's like an overreaction that comes from the past efforts of the body to compensate, but after a while homeostasis comes. I don't know about candida, always have thought of it as an invented diagnosis for a lot of different problems (like SIBO). Maybe that's not the case, but I wouldn't be so fast to put the blame on it for reactions you get from iodine. Or rather, the point is, do you think Iodine can be a problem, an essential nutrient in a non toxic form, or the problem is you? (maybe it's iodine, so if you kill yourself...)
ReplyDelete@rosenfeltc:
ReplyDeleteAfter having some dental problems and trying all kinds of thing I ultimately settled with brushing my teeth with soap (yeah, soap). This is what currently makes the most sense to me. Here's a very good summary about dental care/health.
Also, I would be careful about the oral thrush. Are your sure it's candida or is it just some kind of other coating? I believed for quite some time that I had candida mainly based on the state of my tongue. But ironically my tongue cleared up very quick after upping carbs, something that is very counterintuitive when battling candida. There are lot of reasons for having a coated tongue, Candida is just one of them. (however I think it is quite easy to recognize candida as it lloks quite different than most coated tongues as far as I'm concerned, but I didn't know that back then).
rosenfeltc,
ReplyDeleteI stopped using fluoride toothpaste years ago. You can get non-fluoride stuff at healthfood stores.
About weight gain on Iodoral -- it's possible because the stuff is pretty volatile, so it can make you hypothyroid as well as hyperthyroid. I'd guess that if a person gained weight, she went hypo on it.
I try to convince myself that candida doesnt really exist in the way the natural doctors try to promote it but truth is I can't help but look at my tongue and see how much it resembles the images of candida tongue on google images. Plus it doesnt help that my background isn't very good, meaning I've ate a lot of sugar and refined carbs during my youth and I was 2 years straight on antibiotics for acne so if Candida does exist then I sure have it.
ReplyDeleteThe question is, what is the proper way to get rid of it? or even better is it possible to ever get rid of? I did 4 months of anti candida diet with a bunch of supplements and anti fungals, followed by 8 months of zerocarb so candida should have been starved and killed by now but obviously not.
Now, I'm beginning to worry again cause my acne is slowly starting to explode again all over my face and back. I don't blame HED at all, I'm just starting to think that once you fuck your body to a certain degree it may not be possible to overturn the damage...
My diet obsession started out due to my acne. It really was never that severe, but I developed somewhat of a complex about it. I spent enormous amounts of money on creams and potions, couldn't stop reading about it, looking in the mirror, picking at it, Etc. Couldn't go out and hated being in bright lights and all that. Quite depressed/crazy. The doc put me on low dose doxycycline. It worked wonders, I could never remember being so clear - ever. Interestingly it supposedly works through its anti-inflammatory action rather than its antibiotic action.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, that was about 6 months ago and when I ran out of that, in an effort to stop the acne from coming back, I became religious about not eating sugar, flours, grains, and potatoes/starches. Even milk sugar. Amazingly this worked almost as well as the doxy did. Unfortunately it also made me food crazy and I lost a lot of weight to the point where I started looking and feeling quite awful (improper low carbing probably put me into a bad calorie deficit). I couldn't do any intense exercise but could manage plenty of low intensity odd-jobs, kept my mind off food!
I've now been eating ad libitum for a few weeks, and the acne has returned (thankfully not to the same degree as before). My scales tell me I've come up to 58kg from 50kg, (wow), abs are almost completely disappeared.
My ass still hurts from sitting down all the time, even with plenty of cushions! Fat seems to return to the abs first unfortunately.
I just want to get my appetite back to normal, I'm still gorging myself silly every once in a while. It really is like being on auto-pilot... I could just eat a whole box of rolled oats or something like that honestly. I guess my body is still desperate to fatten up. Come on leptin, save me already!
Rob
Sorry forgot to mention,
ReplyDeleteI am now pleasantly warm all the time (thermogenic effect?), whereas previously I felt the cold viciously. Everyone would have the air conditioning on and I'd be running away from it.
My "mojo" disappeared and has not returned yet, which is a bit of a worry for a 22 y.o guy.
:(
Rob
rosenfeltc - I use a mixture of baking soda, water, peppermint oil and stevia to brush my teeth. This seems to work well for me in place of conventional toothpaste.
ReplyDeleteEasily I acquiesce in but I dream the list inform should secure more info then it has.
ReplyDeleteElizabeth can you post your thoothpaste "recipe." Thnx.
ReplyDeleteI dropped fluoride toothpaste a year ago too, I use baking soda first to clean out my mouth and scrub my tongue. I have purchased 'toothsoap' online (its olive oil, coconut oil and minty oils) and use to clean after the soda... works, but I too have the white coating, I can scrub it off but comes back within the 24hrs. Breath seems to get worse as the day goes on. I am hoping the HED will finally solve this issues, time will tell.
ReplyDeleteNell; be wary of healthstore style toothpastes, the main ingredient is usually glycerin, not good for teeth!
Started 6.25mg of Iodine today, I will track and comment on my progress with this, so far this morn, I seem to have a small headache. This is not normal for me...
I started this health path long ago to cure my acne as well, I have been eating crap from a very young age too. I can say after four months that HED starts to normalize the skin, or it has for me. Scwharzbein talks about how insulin/cortisol imbalances cause imbalances in skin ie oiliness to dryness. Who knows, but my acne and skin quality are getting better and better. So I think as leptin, insulin, cortisol, adrenaline, thyroid, serotonin, and sleep start to normalize, so will your skin.
Skin is the biggest detox organ as well, so years of stored crap needs to come out some how...
@undertow: Have some headaches today too. Could be a symptom of bromide-detox What does it feel like for you? My headaches are slightly pulsating.
ReplyDeleteI think my hands are getting a little warmer, general body temp, just a little. Apart from that, don't feel much different.
About the tongue thing:
I still would be cautios to always think about candida. In Traditional Chinese Medicine the tongue is actually used to diagnose certain problems. Take a look at this and you'll get an idea how different you tongue can look without Candida being involved at all.
@madMUHHH headache seems to come and go, over course of minutes, so sort of pulsating, but in a long rhythm. No warmth differences right away. When did you start? what dose?
ReplyDeleteI started maybe two weeks ago and slowly increased from one to two drops(12,5mg) with some break days inbetween. So haven't really started taking it regularly. Planning on making this the first week with a daily dose of 12.5mg.
ReplyDeleteExcellent we are thinking alike now! I'll try to keep up with updates, compare as we go.
ReplyDeleteHow long are you planning to supplement, any ideas?
I noticed that it tasted very strong in my mouth, could be a deficiency sign?
@taste in the mouth: Do you take Iodoral or Lugol's? I wouldn't read too much into the taste. I think Lugol's at least tastes like fuck no matter what. I always put my two drops some kefir and add a dash of cinnamon. Helps overriding any unpleasant taste and milk naturally should contain iodine (but doesn't always) so maybe I'm even getting some synergistic effects because of that as my body probably will know better how to handle it.
ReplyDelete@duration: I wrote a mail to Dr. poppy about iodine and this was part of the response:
"Usually it takes many months of supplementation to regain sufficiency not just a few days"
So, I'll first see how well I really do on it and maybe aim for 2 months first. Depending on how fast the bottle will empty, but I am suspecting that it will last me more than two months.
Just a generic liquid brand, Iodine (6.25mg / drop). Couldn't find Lugol or Idoral here. I will try 6.25/day for a week or so, then up to 12.5 and see how it goes as well.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info!
I've had persistent headaches for the past week as well. For me it feels like I'm mildly hung over, and usually lasts until the early evening. I thought it might have been sleep related since I had the absolute worst sleep of my life last thursday (I basically failed completely to fall asleep and just laid tossing and turning for 9 straight hours), but it's still here after three nights of relatively good sleep.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea why, never had any non-alcohol related headache since I was a kid.
@Colldén are you taking Iodine?
ReplyDeleteNope, only change I can think of is that I stopped taking gelatin in the evening last week, although that was just a temporary experiment and I didn't get any headaches before I tried gelatin either.
ReplyDeletei'm thinking a few kelp tablets won't make a difference for me so i'm gonna try and get some iodoral here if i can and see how it goes. 12.5mg probably
ReplyDeleteI started Iodoral a week ago gradually increasing number of drops and I too have had low grade headaches most days. I have joined the iodine yahoo group and several have confirmed that it is a typical detox symptom
ReplyDeleteDude, Rice lover...
ReplyDeleteI cooked for 20 people on Friday, my B-day on Saturday, Super Bowl on Sunday. But I love that you called me a pussy. Awesome. Seriously, you can make me laugh as well as anyone.
Even if I wasn't busy, I wouldn't have participated much in the various blog comments sections. It would take too much explanation to even get those guys to the ideology that dominates here.
Great idea with the 180 Summary to Date intro. thing for those landing at 180 for the first time. I'll do a current update blog post soon and then direct people towards the post from something that forever lingers on the upper right hand side of the blog home page.
I'll do a post on candida too, as it is an interesting topic, and avoiding carbs is, like most things, a terrible strategy to deal with candida. It is a great way, however, to have massive candida outbreaks eating even negligible amounts of carbohdyrates though. You can run from candida, but you can't hide.
As for the Iodoral, I'm always very cautious about vitamin or mineral megadosing. Like I've said though, I'm very curious about Brownstein's work, will be reading it at some point this year, and think that it has potential. It's short-term effects are pretty irrelevant in the big scheme of things - such as break outs, weight gain, headaches, etc. But very interesting to hear, so thanks for the reports.
Oh yeah...
ReplyDeleteAnd I quit using flouride toothpaste at age 19. Had cavities almost every year of my life until I was a teenager. Now I've gone 13 years cavity-free on flouride-free toothpaste. I can't tell you how harmful it is, but I can say with certainty that it is not necessary to maintain good dental health.
I like sea salt based toothpastes the best. Tooth powders are my favorite.
Jennythenipper - I just kind of threw the ingredients together, so I don't have an exact recipe, per se, but here's rough idea:
ReplyDelete1/2 cup baking powder
20-30 drops of peppermint oil
10-15 drops of stevia
water (enough to make it pasty)
I mixed mine in a small jar about a month ago and I've still got plenty left. At first the baking soda and water were separated and then after a couple days they seemed to merge into an easy-to-work-with paste.
The baking soda tasted really strong at first, but either it's milder now or I've gotten used to it. It's a pretty flexible recipe you can work with until you find what you like the best. Spearmint oil might taste better, but I happen to have peppermint on hand.
I'm definitely excited in your candida post. I remember reading the few pages on candida inside your digestion ezine but it was mostly about its link with fructose, so I'm interested in reading any new findings or learning that you may have come across about candida (even if the findings are that candida doesn't exist! lol).
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, that I could very easily have clear skin in a week, all I would have to do is go back to eating zerocarb, meaning go back to eating just meat and my skin would be acne free. The problem is that I do feel like by doing that I'm just avoiding my problems instead of overcoming them. Why do I say that? Well because when I go zerocarb, yes my skin is clear but my energy/physical performance goes down and I can't play the long hours of soccer and intense workouts that I'm currently able to do with HED.
But it's just so frustrating to think that I might have fucked my body to a point of no return and now I'm just in a continuous trade-off between clear skin or physical performance!
You know Matt I could get into tooth powder just because it's so old school. Any product considered out of touch fifty years is right down my street. It might be a little awkward to explain to the humorless screeners at airports though.
ReplyDeletethis is the latest comment in the yahoo iodine group
ReplyDelete¨"Since there are always new people on the list I think it is important to say that no one should assume they are going to have a detox reaction to iodine. Dr. Brownstein states less than 5% of his patients had any kind of bad reaction. If you know you have candida or a viral issue just start like you would any other antifungal/antiviral that can give a die off reaction. If you don't have those issues you are not likely to have any reaction unless you are bromide toxic in which case a bromide reaction is unlikely at less than 50 mg depending on how big of a person your are. " they also recommend supplementing with selenium, magnesium, Vit C and salt if taking iodine
Thats interesting stuff Jedi. Do you think it's still necessary to supplement with selenium, magnesium and Vitamin C if one is getting these through the diet?
ReplyDeleteFinally a mainstream article attacking Monsanto:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/02/04/monsanto-the-evil-corporation-in-your-refrigerator/?icid=main|main|dl6|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.walletpop.com%2Fblog%2F2010%2F02%2F04%2Fmonsanto-the-evil-corporation-in-your-refrigerator%2F
rosenfeltc
ReplyDeleteNo actually eg many are taking their selenium in the form of brazil nuts (2 a day ;)) though they do recommend not just adding sea salt to food but doing half a teaspoon in warm water per day
I use tooth soap too. Yes, fluoride is bad, but I think fluoride free toothpaste is not much better. It still has a bunch of nasties in there and the whole thing is that normal toothpaste coats your teeth and prevents re-enamelization. They sell tooth powders, shreds, and soaps on line, but they are crazy expensive, like 30.$ for a one month supply. I found a lady in Alabama who makes all natural soaps, scrubs, lotions, and tooth soap bars. You definitely have to get used to the taste, but it is worth it. They have the same ingredients as other expensive tooth soaps, but these are only 2.99$ each. I got mine months ago and it is still lasting.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cheekymaidensoap.com/dental.php
Rosenfeltc-
ReplyDeleteI too get really clear skin on zero carb or zero fat (aka, highly restricted).
But when I return to eating regular mixed meals, which everyone but Doug Graham and Stanley the Bear end up doing, I get more acne than I did before going ZC or ZF.
I think many have this experience. The key is to have clear skin on a mixed diet (and good glucose response, and digestion, etc.).
My skin was pretty bad the first several weeks on HED. It's not the best it's ever been right now, but it is the best it's ever been while eating to fullness on an unrestricted diet. Even sugar and beer over the weekend has only given me one tiny pimple. When I was low-carb, eating something as small as a Snickers bar would give me wicked forehead breakouts.
So your challenge, if you ask me, is to improve your skin on a mixed diet and don't give up until it starts clearing up. Almost everyone with skin problems in the early stages had improvements within a month.
With a history of acne, this may just take you a little longer than most.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteIt's very good that we can share opinions on this topic here, because as William R. Alger told, "Public opinion is a second conscience."
ReplyDeleteI have visited some blogs of this kind, but I think your one is the best. I like it because it is amazing. Thanks for writing.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
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