If this is your first time reading the 180 Degree Health Blog, then I'm honoured that the first post you're seeing is one of mine.
I've been a fan of the RRARF (Rehabilitative Rest & Aggressive Re-Feeding - CLICK HERE FOR THE FREE RRARF EBOOK) protocal since it was known as the "The High Everything Diet" (HED). As a personal trainer that's worked with hundreds of people, I've been exposed to (and legally bound) to prescribe nutrition advice based on universal principles that don't take into account a person's unique constitution.
I think I've seen it all. Clients of all sizes, ages and fitness levels striving to achieve ideals only found within the various filters and graphic elements of Adobe Photoshop. I've trained women who continuously gain weight while eating 800 calories a day, men who take steroids and lost their ability to manufacture testosterone, teenage girls that drink coffee and smoke all day while running on a treadmill to nowhere, and desperate people who have resorted to gastric by-pass surgery as a last resort.
And for all this, I'm to prescribe nutritional advice based on a pyramid built by lobbyists and bureaucrats within an inner government circle? I don't think so. I quit training people last spring, but will be starting again very soon. What has transpired since then has completely rocked my world in terms of understanding human physiology, and what you're about to read is a fundamental component of what I've learned.
We're all biologically different, come from different genealogical backgrounds, live in different places, and are exposed to different stress and stimuli. Matt, through putting himself through various diets, has demonstrated to us the fallacy of following a universal strategy and how destructive it can be to our health. Since our constitutions are unique, our health issues must be approached at a root level that takes into account the various factors we encounter every day.
Getting to the root of one's physical, mental and emotional heath issues is an essential component of any holistic health and rejuvenation program. Much of what is discussed here on 180 Degree Health involves hormones, autoimmune disease, exercise and nutrition protocols and a key component to understanding these issues involves the nervous system and that's what we'll focus on in this article.
In a nutshell, the nervous system is the information superhighway of the body. Certain organs work with others, while glands send out messengers through the master control centre, the brain. The goal is homeostasis: an equilibrium of all processes in the body. A body in balance is healthy, lean and vibrant - one that transcends the physical into a mental state of well being.
A truly holistic approach to diet and exercise involves an understanding of how the various parts of the body work and communicate with each other – the interplay between organs, glands and hormones, and how they all work within the nervous system. This article is about the interplay between the nervous systems and how bringing them into balance could be the missing element in any holistic health program, like RRARF.
Understanding the Components of the Nervous System
The Nervous System is a collective network of neurons that work together with organs to coordinate movements and transmit signals between different parts of the body. There are two main branches to the nervous system: the Central Nervous System (CNS) and the Peripheral Nervous System (PNS).(1)
The PNS can then be divided into two more branches, the Somatic Nervous System (SNS) and the the Autonomic Nervous System (ANS). The SNS, derived from the Greek word Soma (Σώμα) or body, coordinates bodily movements while reacting to external stimuli such as heat or cold. We're able to monitor the SNS in action as it is under our conscious control – we can feel ourselves shivering in the winter and we voluntarily raise our hands to grab objects. The ANS on the other hand is a system we are largely unconscious of, as it largely controls visceral or organic (organ) functions.
This article will mainly focus on the ANS, as this is the system the governs the processes we're most interested in here on 180 Degree Health: energy, digestion, repair and relaxation. The ANS can be further divided into two final branches: The Sympathetic and the Parasympathetic Nervous Systems. These can be thought of as complimentary processes: the sympathetic branch is often associated with outward energy production and response to stress/stimuli while the parasympathetic branch promotes rest, digestion and repair.
The Sympathetic Nervous System
When this system is activated, the body experiences the following effects(3):- the digestive process is slowed down due to decreased blood flow away from the gastro-intestinal (GI) tract
- more blood is diverted towards the lungs and muscles
- lung function increases as a result of greater oxygen exchange
- peristalis, the action of muscles in the digestive tract (which push digestive food forward), is inhibited
- the kidneys produce a hormone, renin, that regulates blood pressure
The Parasympathetic Nervous System
In contrast to the Sympathetic Nervous System, the Parasympathetic Nervous system slows down many processes of the body that were formerly active, and promotes the following effects(4):- digestion is stimulated by increased blood flow to the GI tract
- peristalsis is activated/accelerated, promoting digestion and absorption of nutrients
- pupils are constricted as a result of a process called accommodation, where the vertebrate eye changes it's optical power
- blood circulation to non-vital organs, such as the skin
- removes and detoxifies wastes from the skin, the extremities, the digestive tract, reproductive organs
- fuel storage (increased insulin activity)
There is another system that works with these two to keep the body working in order, and that is the endocrine system - a hormone-based system run by glands that regulate body temperature, metabolism, tissue function, and mood, among many other processes. Certain glands are activated by the sympathetic branch of the nervous system while others are activated by the parasympathetic system. Let's take a look at the glands and hormones written about extensively in the 180 Degree Metabolism eBook, in context of the activities of the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems:
Adrenal Glands & Cortisol
The adrenal glands are shaped like triangles and can be found on top of the kidneys. They are primarily activated by the sympathetic nervous system and release cortisol in times of stress.(6)Adrenal Glands & Adrenaline
Adrenaline is released by the adrenal glands, and is triggered by acute stress, stimulants (nicotine, caffeine), dieting and lack of sleep.(7) It's production is activated by the sympathetic nervous system.The Pancreas & Insulin
Insulin is considered to be a 'rebuilding hormone'.(8) The parasympathetic nervous system activates the storage of glucose, via increased insulin production and insulin sensitivity.(9)How RRARF can help balance the Nervous System
Since many people subject their body to stress such as increased caffeine, meal-skipping, exhaustive exercise and restrictive diet regimes, we can assume that they are overproducing adrenaline and cortisol, which over time puts a lot of stress on the adrenal glands. The various components of RRARF, such as the reintroduction of unprocessed carbohydrates, decreased caffeine intake, decreased exercise and relaxation are essential in correcting the sympathetic-dominance imbalance plaguing so many people.The next essential component to rehabilitation would be movement/exercise geared towards activating the parasympathetic system and relaxing the body. This involves breathing exercises, meditation and various training regimes such as Tai Chi and Yoga. Stay tuned for my next post, where I'll be delving further into that side of things.
Cassandra is freelance personal trainer based in Toronto, Canada
You can reach her through facebook, http://www.facebook.com/cassandra.damiris
References:
(1) Nervous system. (n.d.). In Wikipedia. Retrieved September 21, 2010, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nervous_system
(2) Can-Fit-Pro. Foundations of Professional Personal Training. Windsor, 2008. Print.
(3) "Your Kidneys and How They Work." WebMD. Web. 21 Sep. 2010.
(4) The Parasympathetic Nervous System (PNS). Veronique Mead, MD. Retrieved September 21, 2010, http://www.veroniquemead.com/pns.php
(5) Per Brodal. The Central Nervous System: Structure and Function. Oxford University Press US, 2004.
(6) Adrenal gland. (n.d.). In Wikipedia. Retrieved September 21, 2010, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenal_gland
(7) Diana Schwarzbein, MD. The Schwarzbein Principle II. Health Communications
Inc. Deerfield Beach, FL, 2002.
(8) Diana Schwarzbein, MD. The Schwarzbein Principle II. Health Communications Inc. Deerfield Beach, FL, 2002.
(9) The Parasympathetic Nervous System (PNS). Veronique Mead, MD. Retrieved September 21, 2010, http://www.veroniquemead.com/pns.php
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ReplyDeleteI honestly can't understand people who write a comment for the sole purpose of being the one who wrote the very first comment. A very stupid practice in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteto quote :
ReplyDeletesuch as the reintroduction of unprocessed carbohydrates, decreased caffeine intake, decreased exercise and relaxation are essential in correcting the sympathetic-dominance imbalance plaguing so many people.
It's kind of not clear here. seems like it says decreased exercise and decreased relaxation... if im not mistaken the idea is increased relaxation.
What are the specifics of her diet on RRARF? Did she take the really high starch in comparison to other macronutrients and include grains?
ReplyDeleteYou'll have to ask her about the gritty details of her diet. I do know that she stopped all drinking, caffeine, smoking, breakfast-skipping, and exercise. She also reported sleeping 10-14 hours per day to start.
ReplyDeleteChief-
Yes, increased relaxation.
@Chief - thanks for the clarification. It's 'decreased exercise & increased relaxation'.
ReplyDelete@Chasintranes - I eyeballed the protein/carbs ratio ensuring they were equal. As far as grains go I only included barley in cracker form, which is a traditional part of the Cretan diet. If I could do it again I would have decreased fat intake (in particular, butter), decreased consumption of nuts like almonds and walnuts, and paid more attention to my genetics.
"If I could do it again I would have... paid more attention to my genetics."
ReplyDeleteThat's really interesting. Are you speaking more of your immediate ancestry, or all of indigenous Cretans? Most of us Americans are mutts, so it would be pretty tough to figure out what our ancestors' diets were primarily made of.
On the other hand, I have observed first hand what caffeine + sugar + white flour (Starbucks much?) have done to my immediate family's physical appearance, and it's not good. But I think you were talking more about fine-tuning, like say, whether a people group would perform better on rice (Asian) or tubers (Irish, Kitavan.)
If you could explain the genetics component of your idea a little more that would be grrreeeaaaat.
Cassandra-
ReplyDeleteHow long did you RRARF for in order to get your temperature gains? And what did you do (if anything) to lose the excess weight?
@Danyelle - you're right in assuming that I'm talking about fine-tuning. Personally, my first priority is that food is grown locally. I'm in Toronto Canada right now, so this presents some challenges and winter should be interesting.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of genetics, I'm considering the idea of how my digestive system works and what fuel is best suited for it. There's a great diagram in William Wolcott's 'Metabolic Typing' book that shows stomachs of all different shapes and sizes, which also puts forth the idea that our insides are just as different as our outward physical appearance. Having said that, I choose foods with a density similar to what my ancestors (from the Black Sea in modern-day Turkey) ate - wheat, corn, veg, fish. It might seem easier to think that having a more homogeneous blood line would make things easier, but I'm predisposed to the idea that people of mixed race can tolerate/easily digest more foods of a greater variety.
I'm a lot like Matt though, experimenting with different ways of eating and am definitely not an expert so I'll advise others to read advice from someone who is - Paul Chek - and the book is called 'How to Eat Move & be Healthy'. Of particular interest is the chapter on digestion and how our body reacts to certain foods (i.e. bowel movements, burping, passing gas, etc.) - and how these clues provide us insight into how our body reacts to the foods we eat.
katrina,
ReplyDeletemy two cents on weight loss
In terms of normal body function, which is what doing rrarf has as a primary goal of achieving.
No behavior or eating modification is needed in order to achieve normal body composition. Your body is self regulating in that respect when your body is working.
it may take time to "convince" your body it doesn't need to store fat ( I wont need to protect katrina from famine in the future.)
and if anything, forcing it will only do the opposite.
you may be able to "get away" with dieting after achieving a good metabolism but that doesn't mean it is good.
@Katerina - I did the HED/RRARF protocal for a few months and raised my body temp to about 36oC from 35oC. It was really low because of a lot of physical and emotional stress...doing a job I disliked and lots (LOTS) of plyo training to work off my stress, along with a lot of coffees and a diet based mostly on broccoli, almonds, cabbage and lettuce with the odd chicken kebab. The temp gain to over 37oC came when I quit doing a job I hated, and made it a priority to find the time to connect with my friends and family.
ReplyDeleteThe weight loss, 15 pounds so far, came from reducing fat intake, eating lightly during the day, doing exercise I like (pilates, bodyweight, dance) vs. what I dislike (plyo, heavy weight lifting), and recognizing that I'm different from many paleo-enthusiast blog writers I admire, being the type predisposed to eating more carbohydrates.
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ReplyDeleteDanyelle,
ReplyDeletealthough i do feel genetics may play a role in some cases i think in many other cases it doesn't. It may require personally experimentation to find what works for you.
you mentioned tubers and the irish and i doubt in that respect they differ much from english next door simply because they had potatoes for a few hundred years. Especially comparing to the Inca/tawantinsuyu who had it for 5000 plus years.
As for the mutt concept i don't think its as drastic as some claim, heres a little funny thing.
there is a common joke in native circles. "You know your indian when, 99 percent of white people say my great, great grandma was cherokee when they meet you"
which oddly enough is stated by whites in the midwest almost that much and is always cherokee not black foot or iroquois.
in far contrast north of the imaginary line where racial prejudice towards natives is much higher it is different. Places like Manitoba and Quebec have been proven through DNA to be genetically substantially native american in origin you will never hear people say they are part native.
There you can find many who look obviously native but dispute it claiming all sorts of things like "having italian or something way back in there" in order to blend in and not be oppressed. You see the same thing with some mexicans not wanting to be viewed as native when the arguably resemble aztecs a lot more than Spaniards.
I think most European americans are from, well Europe lol and probably don't vary as drastically as say an african to an asian. Although there are obvious differences person to person not to the point it is conceptualized.
Cassandra demaris,
ReplyDeleteinteresting how, stress is related so much to body function eh? have fun finding locally grown in the T dot. :)
I think your point about increasing carbs may have an indirect relation to the fat loss in conjunction to the training vs sitting on a couch, due to stimulating glycogen uptake and perhaps muscle mass increase in the process to make it available for the future demands.
Interesting you brought up metabolic typing and eating right for your nutritional type. A lot of natural health blogs are promoting it. I wonder though if nearly everyone is sympathetic dominant and needs carbohydrates/rest/relaxtion to balance out their sympathetic dominance. People who eat too much fruit or go high carb/low protein/low fat eventually become parasympathetic dominant from rarely stimulating their sympathetic branch. Paleo followers eventually become too sympathetic dominant and burn out their adrenals/sympathetic branch. Balance is obviously key. If one is going to exercise, drink coffee, and have a stressful job, then a carbhydrate dominant diet would definitely be more suitable. But, if someone sits around all day, does yoga, has no stress, sleeps too much, and has little motivation or drive, then some excersise, coffee, stress would do some good to make them more productive. Like Matt has said, never eliminate any macronutrient, and eating in tune with your body/circadium rhytms so you can take advantage of that energy/focus/drive created by the sympathetic branch, then at night sit back/relax and knock down some potatoes untill all that serotonin puts you to sleep. Great article as always.
ReplyDeleteCassandra, I don't find eating locally too problematic in Toronto as long as you count all of Ontario local. Being a student I don't find it too expensive, even with organic but my diet does consist of mainly potatoes, eggs, cheese, organ meats and some local fruit/veg. Farmers markets are all over but I guess local fish and grains/nuts are not common. Winter is going to be interesting for sure.
ReplyDeleteChief, I think you're right about whole mutt thing. I'm a typical American Mutt, but at the end of the day all of my ancestors that I know of came from northern Europe. England, Ireland, Sweden, Germany...none of them are so different climate wise or diet wise.
ReplyDeleteI'm originally from NoDak and I always heard the Cherokee thing too. I think it's that the Cherokee were the most assimilated tribe and their story was well known. I didn't hear a lot of white-identified people volunteering that they were Dakota or Mandan/Hidatsa. There are parts of the midwest (Oklahoma) where most of the population has some native blood. They aren't all Cherokee, but probably some mix of all the tribes that were removed from the SE US.
I know lots of Metis in Manitoba who are proud of their native ancestors. Like Louis Erdrich said, those Indian ladies turned a lot more of those Frenchmen into Indians than the other way round.
Jenny,
ReplyDeletethat what i meant and i think it applies to the average person like it does to your situation.
My thoughts are the same as to why it's always cherokee, there were pretty assimilated being referred to as a "5 civilized tribes" although not to a large degree they even had african slaves and whatnot so to the average white person back in the day they were not seen as such a bad thing to be mix. Also it was probably used to explain mixed african or other non anglo ancestry such as in the case of the melungeons. I agree oklahoma native population and that area in general is obviously unique in that respect I use think of the being the west as its part of the "wild wild west " i stand corrected, most of the midwest.
I should have clarified that the racial prejudice is in all the provinces and while in manitoba it is more accepted within particular metis communities to be mixed as there is strength in numbers but many hide it after moving either to the "big city" or another province. But Quebec, is definitely the native version of mississippi burning ill attest to that.
Jenny ,
ReplyDeletenodak. ????? just thought of that,damn thats out there! surprisingly i went through there and minot before
I would love to hear more about Cassandra's personal journey, all this science, I can't understand.. :)
ReplyDeleteCassandra, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you? and Can you post like before, after and during pictures? or stats?
I think it would be super if some of you guys that have done RRARF did some documentation of your process, have a before and after type info thing so we can learn more about what changes occur etc.
I am the lone Wolf here? Sorry Chief, don't want to step on any paws . :)
deb
PS I just chowed down on some bison tacos.. I am trying to eat more folks and have not exercised since the infamous "Spin till You Drop" episode last Tuesday.
Debbie, dont be afraid to ask for clarity I'm not lazy :)
ReplyDeletelet me put my last statement into clearer terms: (which now that i re-read it is confusing)
here goes :
i don't feel that going switching to high carb had any direct effect in making her lose weight.
meaning 200 cals of fat wont make a person fatter than 200 cals of carbs assuming they are not junk food.
if someone sat on a couch not stimulating muscle growth through exercise ( in her case body weight exercise) then the effect of raising the carb would make no difference.
however with exercise involved which stimulates an adaptive response it will result in a different outcome.
the adaptive response that happens when you do certain exercises will cause an increased need of glycogen stores for future workouts (think of glycogen as muscle sugar/ energy) because it is depleted as you workout and they need refilling as well as there is muscle building that requires calories to build it as well as the insulin response which helps with muscle building by
.
how this effects it, is simply because carbs are needed to create glycogen as it cant be made of fat it can be converted out of protein in the case of crazy no carbers but in her case the she had carbs available to create glycogen.
Deb
ReplyDeleteill see if i can find some older pics and as far as my stats 273 to 215 with calories ranging in the 5000 - 7000 cal range temperature + sleep with no blankets and go outside when it snows wearing the shirt in my profile pic :) Although i never heard of 180 till last week i assure you that my success is based on 5 or 6 years ago coming to a rarrf-like conclusion. so if you need to understand rarrf, ask away dont be shy or feel stupid
.
I eat insane amounts of food and when i was fat i ate probably more than most but nowhere near what i eat now. I never had to count a calorie and did not adjust carbs or fats just ate em as i liked em.
In retrospect if i did it over, in all fairness i think i ate so many calories the carbs were so high already raising them seems futile especially considering i never ate luther-burger style. but for some it might make a difference.
Great on reducing the exercise ! now apply that training mindset to some eating exercises ! lol
I'm doing a 30 day yoga experiment at the moment, nothing but yoga for 30 days (I'm actually trying to do it every day but sometimes that doesn't work out). I guess that's stimulating the parasympathetic side of my nervous system all right.
ReplyDelete@CHIEF: Hilarious comment. I live in Alabama where I've yet to meet a local who doesn't claim Cherokee ancestry.
I think eating for genetics is an interesting concept, but as you said, maybe not in the way most people would think. I come mostly from Northern European stock myself, very heavy on the Norwegian, German and Irish. The only thing I've wondered about is I've heard that those with coastal ancestry--in my case Irish and Norwegian--do better on more seafood (I'm pretty sure that thought came from the WAPF crowd). I've never really tested that theory because I didn't grow up eating seafood and I still don't eat it very often.
So much interesting stuff in here.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I have to say that sleep makes a tremendous difference. Should have noticed that before, but even like 20 minutes more sleep per day noticeably incereases my energy levels. I'm gradually trying to go to bed earliet atm, even though this weekend is kinda f*cked up and I'm going on a class trip to england starting next Saturday and I'm sure there won't be too much time to sleep. But after that I think I will start going to bed ultra-early.
It's also funny that you people are mentioning yoga and Paul Chek and that stuff, because I've just recently thought about taking a deeper look into his book and incorporating some stuff.
I notice that after a few days of binge eating I look fatter obviously yet when I reduce calories I look amazing for a day or two at which point my body seems to reject that fat loss and just slows down.A miserable way to lose weight and I wonder if we all have different speeds of slowdown.What about dieting for a day or two and then refeeding?
ReplyDeleteChief could you go into more detail as to how you lost weight eating more calories?
Speaking of genetic diversity,I am Cuban/Puerto Rican living in NYC and can relate to alot of what you say.I look white like an Irish man.Hispanics do not consider me even Spanish from Spain LOL.My mother is of mixed heritage being Puerto Rican and when I asked her about our heritage she bugged and looked at me like I was crazy.Its funny how society makes you need to hide your past.I also get all the racist people come to me and talk shit about other races not knowing I am Hispanic.Shaving my head and looking like a skin head doesn't help but I like the look.Sometimes I let it slide while other times I let them have it.Probably should freak every time though but I am of the mindset that your thoughts are your own.You wanna hate on a people or a skin color then go ahead its your life.
@Will: I've been experimenting with very short term dieting myself. Long-term "gentle" dieting seems to screw with my body just as much as short-term extreme dieting would. I've realized I can't handle much intense dieting. A few days on any kind of calorie-restricted diet leads to misery (even just a mild calorie restriction). So I've taken to doing a very limited diet for 2-3 days at a time (for instance, a coconut water fast or something akin to PSMF), then taking 10-14 days off. I've tried doing 2 days per week but this seems to be too much and cravings start popping up. This method appears to take off the typical one lb/week, but I'm really only "dieting" for 5-7 total days per month. The rest of the time I try to eat a good bit of real food. I find that if I eat plenty of good coconut fats I can get away with 2400-2700 calories a day without regaining any weight loss (which is a ton for a woman of my size and exercise habits). So far I'm sitting on about 8-9 lbs lost and slowly inching forward. I'm trying to take a really flexible fat loss approach and just take it one day at a time.
ReplyDeleteThanks Chief! I do wonder what role testosterone plays in your scenario? In other words, if I eat like you, I won't build as much muscle as you.. hence I would gather that I would get fatter?
ReplyDeleteElizabeth: loving that yoga idea, I am taking Oct to rRARF and I am thinking daily more gentle yoga, walking and short easy bike rides will be my relaxation style exercise. How much weight did you plan to lose in total?
deb
Wolf,
ReplyDeleteI think we are all different as far as how we tolerate food and process calories etc. I won't rehash because I'm sure people here are tired of hearing it. But I eat ridiculous amounts of food (all clean) and although I don't want to, I just keep losing weight. If I exercise or even spend too much time on my feet I lose even more. I come to these blogs not in search of a diet to lose weight but for more information about staying heart healthy. I'm 5'10 and before altering my diet I was 183-185 which is comfortable for me and my training. I re-tooled my diet and fell to 166 as of 3 weeks ago even though I keep adding bigger portions or another sweet potato, more brown rice or beans, extra chicken or beef, more eggs etc. I can't add anymore food to my plate because it is getting ridiculous.
Yet, as I posted in another area, I went on a cruise last week and gained 8 lbs in 8 days eating "their" food even though I watched what I ate "ate less than at home" and had no sweets or desert, bread etc. Only 2 days home and I lost 4 lbs. Yesterday another 1/2 lb gone. After a workout tomorrow I'll be down to 168 again (unfortunately).
Most people I know (everyone) says they couldn't eat like me. Even my sister says it is easier for her to stay on a statin!!
@Debbie: Well, I was up about 27 lbs from what I considered to be my "ideal" weight (achieved previously through conventional dieting, which of course led to a host of conventional health problems!). I'd like to get back down in that range, so just a little less than 20 lbs to go. But in all honesty that's sort of an idealistic goal and if I lost 10 more lbs from here I'd be pretty happy. Any after that will be icing on the cake and would be treading on the line of uber-fit, at least for my ideals.
ReplyDeleteOh, and I'm really loving the yoga. I'm also doing some walking (slow, relaxing walks--no power walking, lol). It's really taken my stress level down. I am noticeably more at ease after a good yoga session. It almost feels drug-like.
ReplyDeleteElizabeth,
ReplyDeleteseems like state to state wherever there is a low native population
we are romanticized but not so much in a place like arizona.
The canadian equivalent of backwoods alabama would be more inclined to tease each other something like " i bet you have indian in you" "...nu uh nutuh not me.. you do !"
wolf,
yea I've see with your situation, as a teenager my cousin ( her mom is white) got pissed at me when i said hi and introduced myself as her cousin. her boyfriend broke up with her on the spot as his friends started teasing him cuz he didn't no he was dating a @#$%In indian ).
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDeb, Wolf ,
ReplyDeletecalories don't play a real much of a role in fat management. You need calories to create fat but the amount of calories themselves do no decide how much fat you have or how quickly it will leave your body.There are 3 ways to reduce fat in the human body that i know of .
1.)
liposuction which has been shown to have adverse effects and is the equivalent of tossing those with birth defects off a cliff instead of finding a cure.
2.) starve or exercise to create a deficit which your body does not like and I have rarely seen result in any long term results ( think 1 in 1000) and even then you commit yourself to a life of starvation at least to some degree which equals poor quality of life and ill health.
3.) your body achieves better metabolism and overall function and finds a way to disregard any minor excesses through a series of different actions and regulates your hunger to a different "level" and does a bunch of different unconscious things to remove the fat once it "feels" the fat is no longer needed for whatever purpose the fat is serving in a person's individual case ( This is the key, figuring out why you are carrying the fat)
In my opinion it is so simple, I do not understand why "experts" are not all over TV talking about it and creating "proof' in the medical mainstream.
Testosterone's only role really in the case of my eating situation is that it builds and maintains muscles mass which contributes to a bigger "hunger" I doubt you (deb) will ever eat like me but it is possible see these 2 girls below.
ReplyDeleteEven if your body did give you an increase in hunger to match mine, if it is natural and your body is functioning properly there will be no fat gain at least not significant or permanent which is all that really matters i would look at major fat gains a sign of a really messed up body. force-feeding can result in TEMPORARY gains but i have never seen true hunger cause a person to become a fatass nor can i find any evidence of such.
2 massive eaters : Gal Sone Sonya Thomas
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1m3er_gal-sone-40000-kc_blog
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonya_Thomas
@debbie - I'm not sure how effective/convincing any before/after pics would be as the 'before' shots would show a considerably thinner person than the after shots. I gained 30 pounds over a couple of months, and have lost 15 of it over the summer by decreasing my intake of fat with the carbs (veg/fruit) and Intermittent Fasting. This worked for me because I became parasympathetic-dominant through all the 'aggressive' relaxation I was doing. Fasting and low-cal eating stimulates the sympathetic branch, at least this is my experience.
ReplyDeleteThe rest of the weight will come off in a similar fashion. Winter is coming and this means no more fruit except these apples I'm finding around the neighbourhood. I like eating lightly, and don't stress too much about it. A lot of times it's vegetarian fare but I've been known to demolish steaks if they're put in front of me. That's unique to me, but if you're not understanding a lot of what's being said here this should give you another reason to seek out guidance from an FDN/Chek/Metabolic Typing professional.
Sorry, forgot to mention...I'm in my early thirties and stand at about 170 cm. I wasn't weighing myself regularly but during the summer of 2009 I was 135 lbs and this spring after the RRARF period I weighed in at 165.
ReplyDeleteCassandra Damiris,
ReplyDeleteI love the quasi oxymoron "aggressive relaxation" funny but it suits the protocol quite well. :)
I do agree that fasting can help with both parasympathetic and sympathetic sides of the coin.
Calorie deprivation is not necessary to obtain the results.
@chief you said something interesting earlier: "i don't feel that going switching to high carb had any direct effect in making her lose weight meaning 200 cals of fat wont make a person fatter than 200 cals of carbs assuming they are not junk food."
ReplyDeleteI think the dramatic weight gain was a result of mixing carbs with fat, spiking my insulin (carbs) and keeping my blood sugar high (fats). This might be an oversimplified conclusion though, you tell me.
Cassandra Damiris
ReplyDeleteIi feel the fat carb ratio statement doesn't take in to consideration weather or not your body is "healed" or functioning properly which in my opinion is achievable by all. (note that i have not tested morbidly obese yet)
Nor does the statement take in to consideration other factors such as stress lifestyle type of fats etc.
I have learned a great deal in my own experimentation with my "guinea pigs" especially making the thin ones fat or muscular which gave me way more understanding on making the fat people thinner.
My experiments might not be "scientific trials" but they have pretty steady results.
So Chief,
ReplyDeleteHow do you think I can figure out why I'm still carrying the fat? I've been eating good whole foods to appetite since Feb. this year, no spontaneous loss yet.
And 4 days ago I started listening to a Jon Gabriel track before bedtime every night - he's telling my body it wants to be thin, it's safe to be thin and fit, etc. etc.
I (and several other ladies here) are trying to be patient, let our bodies let us know when the fat is ready to come off, but man it's tough. Any ideas?
Danyelle,
ReplyDeleteHMM i really need to give Jon Gabriel's cd a listen to see what it is exactly he says as i cant say weather the cd is good. (the book is great so i imagine its descent at minimum and can't imagine it being harmful.)
I) would have to give my opinions on a person to person basis as i don't know your whole history.
1) what kind of diet you came from going in to "proper eating" ( Vegan, low carb, low fat etc.)
2.)How severe in john's case (400 pounds) Major change only happened 2 years after committing to change. then boom it's started dropping at incredible rates.
3.) what your life is like, age ( only to show how long you have been eating wrong ) what your health is like, how stressful of an environment or mindset you have etc.
in my opinion the main factors are phycological, stress related, improper body function ( leptin or insulin resistance or inflammation etc ) toxins or nutritional deficiencies (which are the same as calorie deprivation or starvation)
if you look deeply into these you WILL find the answer.
Danyelle,
ReplyDeleteyou mentioned "safe to be thin"
just to add one thing about it:
It is important to understand how that relates to each person.He assumes all people would fear a sabertooth tiger. In my personal case I encounter bears often and my heart rate doesn't go up the least little bit. A moose on the other hand charges like a maniac and I watch em cautiously. nonetheless i doubt for me a sabertooth would be any different than a bear as I have no doubt in my mind I am on equal grounds with either one as long as I have a knife, I also don't fear a fight with GSP. :)
I do agree how your body interprets the stress acute or chronic will have an effect but for each person that's different. So try to wrap your head around how it works to for you personally to get the best results.
hmmm so I have been eating RRAF for almost a month now, and I am happy to see that weight hasn't been too much an issue- only five pounds. Yet I am continually eating more and more without weight gain and I am wondering if eating this many calories is really that great for your body? I am guessing that your body has to work pretty hard to burn all those extra calories out of your system. I mean are we really supoosesd to eat 400000 kcal just because we don't gain weight from it? I don't think the human body is meant for long term starvation, but I doubt we are supposed to overgorge ourselves all the time either. Isn't their a better way to nourish ourselves without stretching out our stomach?
ReplyDeleteLina
ReplyDeletenot necessarily is all the calories being burned.
I would say you will eventually hit a point where your body steps in and regulates your hunger.( this is what i have seen)
Nourish is the key for hunger vs. calorie content, when your body gets all the vitamins, calories, fat minerals etc that it needs it wont "force" you to eat more than it needs and getting high quality will naturally require less volume but your body is equipped to deal with low nutritional density as well as high.
As far as the stomach stretching worry, the stomach size or stretching ability has no bering on hunger intensity or the body's calorie demands or needs, at least in my observations and research.
Thanks Chief and Tommy.Do you eat low fat like Matt suggests?What about protein...do you measure out to ensure your getting enough or just eat some meat at every meal?
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ReplyDeleteWolf,
ReplyDeleteyour welcome and to answer your questions,
I have never really calculated measured or restricted any macro nutrient other than for experiments such as trying massive amounts of protein or counting the number of plates at a buffet to see if it averages out to 1.50 a plate. :)
Sometimes I don't eat meat sometimes I do. Keep in mind there are other factors such as availability and my meal frequency for instance which is not the same as most. I'm not even saying meat is crucial, I have a friend who does fine training with eggs,fish beans and grains as protein sources.
Protein is not as critical as body building magazines or protein product endorsing people will claim. Anything over half a gram per pound of lean body-weight is really a personal choice as it has not been shown to be better in clinical trials. According to some it may even have some less than desirable side effects. Furthermore, in what i have witness protein has no direct dose-dependent results past 80-ish grams per person per day (average sized people).
Wolf, about low fat, like matt
ReplyDelete"low carb or high carb" and "low fat or high fat" are ambiguous terms to me in the sense that, really what do you consider low.? compared to what ? my taste might be alot different than yours or matt's even, looking at his zuchini video it might be slightly less. see here http://180kitchen.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/how-to-saute/ its close to my zukes though
As long as all things besides food are the same, you are engaged in typical physical activity and we are not talking about crazy amounts of fat like a luther-burger a day and eating everything else dipped in butter sauce right down to every french fry, I think it matters little. Even though in that respect it would be hard to keep up as I think you'll be grossed out by fat after a while.
however having adequate carbs (or even more) while weight training can have greater results if the stimuli or need is there. Again how do i say how much is adequate for you ? I don't know what your doing as far as training, how long you have been training or how muscular or truly healthy you are, how well you respond to foods, if you are diabetic etc.. but I'll tell you one thing ..... your body does know! :)
I agree about the protein being a scam.When I got into my best shape I was eating only 70gms per day for a straight month and was very muscular with no muscle loss.Thing is that this was when I was young and I had to go down to 900 calories for the last month.I have always felt I had a slow metabolism and when I went down to 900 I looked straight out of a magazine since I put on muscle at a a fast rate rate.I was also smelling food cooking from a block away.Starving all day to look good for me is not worth it though I must say that walking down a street and women whistiling at you as they drive by is a hell of a drive though.
ReplyDeleteThis is why my mind is so reluctant to start eating alot of calories.And I do start to feel healthy and fatloss seems to slowly pick up when I do and then I go right back to the "must cut calories and weightloss will speed up" mentality...I cut calories...fatloss speeds up and then just stops.
I am gonna force myself this time.
Wolf,
ReplyDeleteI don't eat low fat. But I don't eat high either and in both cases it has nothing to do with measuring or on purpose. I just eat. I don't buy anything low fat because to my that is modified. I don't eat supermarket meats or fowl because I think they are lacking and not trustworthy. Meats from fast food joints are full of other things that make the sat fat bad IMO. Food that is created in a factory somewhere. So I eat pastured eggs....one most mornings and sometimes a few days without but at least 4-5 times per week. Pastured chicken 4-5x per week. Grass feed ground beef once or twice per week. Sardines once per week and once and awhile wild caught Alaskan salmon. I drink 8 oz of raw milk per day to which I mix a scoop (26 g) Casein protein powder. I choose casein because I'm not taking it to supplement my workouts and it is slow working as opposed to whey. I don't actively try to get a lot of protein but with my diet it naturally works out to about 140-170 g per day. Same with fat. I don't worry about sat fat but I don't go out of my way to eat it either. Whatever comes naturally in the food and portions I'm eating. What I consider normal portions for me.
I don't eat restaurant meat but if I did I would see no reason to eat the advertised "16 oz steak." To me that is 3 portions. I don't worry about sat fat but too much of anything is no good. What you combine it with is worse (or what it is combined with that you don't know about). So I stay middle of the road. I don't know a hole lot about all of this stuff but I know what seems to work for me based on all the info I get from here and various other sites on both sides of the fence. 3 sides? lol. High carb, low carb, low fat. For me there is another side. The Tommy side! And that's the one that matters. I don't follow a "way" I follow information and knowledge. From there I mark "my" path.
Wolf - Maybe you could have benefited from a refeed day after a week of strict dieting. A cycling diet of that type seems to work well for a good body composition without the effects of long-term chronic dieting.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to cycling your food various ways (I had great weight-loss success, carb cycling, or refeed days, or an other various ways to skin that cat), I had always thought of meat cycling. Seeing that many carnivores will eat very infrequently but herbivores will often eat damn near continuously, I would like to try overlaying those two. Eat pretty much vegetarian and then pig out on some meat a few times a week. I believe that this was similar to what Matt did when he was doing the ultra low-fat thing. Not sure how to implement it for the best results though because I think Matt burned out on this after awhile. Just kinda thinking out loud.
ReplyDeleteI like the eating meat as it comes without stripping out the fat.Same with milk and eggs.And I agree a portion is just a portion.That for me amounts to around 25 to 30gms of protein per meal.I have kidney issues and definitely feel stress on them from upping protein.Not sure if it damages them but I feel ill when I overeat meat or any type of protein.
ReplyDeleteI woke up skinnier today...yes only two days but weird that I feel skinnier eating more.My body is screaming for a true HED.I feel refeeds work but I just can't seem to make it work for me.My metabolism slows down so quickly it seems.I need to do the true HED for a good month to totally reset my body clock.Just can't stand getting fatter for vain reasons.I might try Matt's suggestion of going very lowfat for the duration.
iles,
ReplyDeleteGood point , I have seen it work for people that had a good training regiment even without "strict" dieting without much in the way of adverse effects.
either case slow is the way to go to not "force" the body which just results in re-fatification.
Will,
"damn near continuously" lol made me think of the girl eating 30 bananas a day, how many would i have to eat? sheez anyways ive been toying with your "out-loud thought" lately
Wolf,
to quote you " it seems " , you have to ignore the short term and definitely break free from the "calories make me fat " vibe. Calories are needed to make fat but they don't turn a person fat. Fix yourself, nobody is doomed. considering your beliefs on glasses and varicose veins it should be a snap to have a normal metabolism.
Chief, you are such an awesome addition to this blog's feedback :) Both you and Matt contribute some valuable insights! Just wanted to say thanks! I am learning a lot by reading all these discussions.
ReplyDeleteChief,
ReplyDeleteI was referring to examples from the animal kingdom, LOL! Like cows are constantly grazing whereas a lion might only eat once every three days or so...
"A single lion may take two or more meals from a kill over a 2-3 day period, while prides usually cannot get more than one meal for everybody after an average kill. After eating a large meal, lions will sleep for as long as 24 hours (what a life!). A good, full meal for a pride may result in four days of little activity, and no great desire to hunt until the sixth day."
Hell, a croc can go over a year without food.
Let me know how the experiment goes.
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ReplyDeleteANA,
ReplyDeleteYour welcome thanks for the appreciation !
hope I can help anyone out there
AUTHENTIC WILL,
I know man! It's still funny...it applies to some lazy hunters that just chill once they finally eat. I figured you meant something like gorillas that have to eat leaves every 2 minutes which interestingly enough, is what a lot of raw foodies quote as inspiration for the ability to look like Brock Lesnar eating only salads.
I have seen great results eating vegetarian though.
I need to sit down and get a earful on matt's vegan experiences as i am yet to (meat) an anti-vegan ex-vegan. vegans are usually dogmatically set in their minds like one friend who ate nothing but special k and rice krispies for months because where he was living it was the only vegan product for miles.
ANA.
ReplyDeleteoh yea be careful quoting info you find here, you might get locked up like up like Galileo !
Talking about increased relaxation. I sure need it. We had our second shoot out in three months yesterday night right outside our building. Some kind of gang thing it seems. I've already got PTSD from another shoot out that I was in the middle of, so this is not what I need even though it was only out on the street, not in my building.
ReplyDeleteIt was on my weekly RRARF day too....I guess I should rename it RRARFWBF "restorative rest and aggressive re-feeding while bullets are flying"...lol...
Chief!!!!! I am an ex vegan and even more frightening, an ex RAW vegan.
ReplyDeleteSo you did "Meat" an ex vegan.
xo
deb
This has nothing to do with anything really, but I found it humorous (speaking of Vegans). I was at a farmers market yesterday and right in the middle was a woman selling farmed products vegetables and fruit etc. She had a sign promoting vegetarianism and vaganism. I wish I had a camera because right across from her was a booth with a guy selling butchered rabbit for human consumption and he had the pelts also for sale hanging all over....LMAO!!! He had customers....she did not.
ReplyDeleteDebbie, what kind of diet do you eat now? Regular HED style with starches, meats, veggies, and fruits? Do you feel better on this diet than you did on the raw vegan diet? Did you feel any benefit from the raw vegan time?
ReplyDeleteTommy, that's so interesting with that farmers market observation. My only issue with meat is the uric acid problems I've got with it now.
deb,
ReplyDeleteI've toyed with raw vegan thing for a week here and there and I advise it to people temporarily for "healing" benefits. If i did it long term I wold cheat n eat pemican and jerky it's still raw :) lol I think it would be difficult for even myself to get enough in on a raw veggie diet.
My only interest in vegans is some people have have "beef" with meat from a belief stand point and I am not one to attack peoples beliefs. I do get asked every once in a while for advice and i don't want to Knowingly tell someone to do something that may be harmful. Especially considering I cant find fault in a well organized vegetarian (non raw) diet I feel I don't have enough info in that regard.
Damn lisa,
ReplyDeletenot to poke fun, but perhaps life threatening ACUTE stress might make it difficult to rarrrf properly
SORRY for the long post---
ReplyDeleteHi, just stopping by (again) to see if anyone can help me. I kind of RRARF'd for about a month in July/August, and tapered off trying to eat "to appetite" slash just eat whatever I wanted in August-now. This has caused some agony becuase I literally cannot just follow my appetite...I either eat too little or too much.
I am recovering from an eating disorder and I really want to get my symptoms figured out-- fatigue, poor sleep, unstable moods, low motivation/mild depression & anxiety, etc. I feel like eating probably plays a role, as I know a bite or two of sugar sends me into an eating spiral even if I am full. My question is, how can I eat to appetite if I don't know what that is?
Should I RRARF longer to get to the place where I will just want to stop eating? I've been bulimia-free for several months, but I still don't seem to have the off switch until i'm really full. The eating I'm talking about isn't even emotional eating most of the time. It's just like this at every meal. I wonder if I let myself get too hungry before eating? When I start a meal, I dive in. I also can't decipher what's hunger and what's digestion.
I think my metabolism has sped up but I don't want to count cals/monitor weight to see how much. So much of this is psychological, so I know I can't just follow rules about how much/what to eat---I'll rebel right away and get worse. On the other hand, I don't know how much more weight I can gain (I have gained 7ish lbs) without going crazy.
Suggestions? I just want to have a take it or leave it attitude about food, like all the normal people I know. I've broken my sugar addiction which is a huge step but I need help on my way to relearning hunger/fullness. Thanks!
Jamie,
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion you didn't give "normal" eating a proper go, it may take a lot longer than 30 days.
like i say often when people have good results early on but still are not fully satisfied with things, Well, you didn't mess your body up in 30 days......did you?
To quote you : "and tapered off to eat to appetite"
I assume you mean that you made a conscious effort to monitor the eating after. I personally have never seen "runaway hunger" in anyone that was not warranted by the body which is trying to get what it needs.
I assume your relationship with food is distorted if you were bulimic at one time. The body has a way of making hunger "disappear" as it would be difficult in a hunter gatherer sense to have unbearable hunger and still obtain the next meal. It's important to let go of the idea that eating will make you fat, food is not the enemy nor is willpower. Not only is there no scientific evidence that over-eating or lack of will power causes obesity, I have never seen it. Don't be afraid to eat it shall set you free.
Unless you suffer from something like Prader Willi syndrome (less than .01 % of the population) If you eat and eat and eat eventually your body will step in when it feels its getting what it needs and adjusts hunger. You have to let it happen in its own. Forcing it early is no different than dieting or bulimia in that respect.
Hi Chief: Well, I do see some gapping holes in a vegetarian diet esp if they consume soy. Lots of holes.
ReplyDeleteLisa E.: Raw vegan living did help lower my white blood cell count ( I have CLL, form of leukemia) after five months on it. Problem is, I kept doing it for two more years until it convinced my body to eat my muscles, make my digestion horrible and generally think that a famine was in progress. Trying to fix all that now with a moderate HED. Looking to stop my exercise mania and staring Oct 1 to do a rrarf with only walk, yoga and easy bike rides for one month. I hope to document it pretty throughly so Matt can use me as his lab rat.
xo
deb
Deb,
ReplyDeleteI agree, the typical vegetarian style is probably as gaping as a S.A.D. diet. I just think a pretty geeky individual might be able to organize a pretty good thing.
Easy ( and a good idea) to dodge soy and all the faux meats in my opinion.
OH we shall have some interesting convos in LA !
Today is 1yr following HED/RRARF for me. Basically I have been overeating, and resting for one year on whole foods, focusing on unrefined carbs. Walking was the only exercise done. I believe my healing has come a long way, and still has a long way to go. In the first 3 months, I went from 185 to 195, in the last few months my weight set point has been steady 190.
ReplyDeleteJamie, I will agree with Chief, 30days might not cut it for some.
Going to try and update my blog this week, with the last few months update; trying IsoCort, milk diet, trying T3, adding lots of fruit, adding some vitamin supplements, starting MET training, basal temps...
Overall big thanks to everyone in this community, made that year go by quick!
Thanks chief. You might be right, as I did try to "watch" my appetite by semi-restricting some meals since I didn't have any idea what I "should" be eating.
ReplyDeleteI think I'll give it another go and try to incorporate less fat, more starches, and less veggies. I'm used to using veggies as a volume agent in my meals-- it just leads to confusing fullness signals. I just don't know how much fat to eat since I do feel good when eating it (and i really crave it-- even just plain coconut oil) but I know it doesn't necessarily trigger my satiety cues just yet.
Undertow,
ReplyDeleteNow that's commitment!
Jamie,
your welcome, take notice though in your response you mentioned more "watching" just let go... if you crave veggies or fat or whatever in the immortal words of Weird Al Yankovic "just eat it " in the same light don't use any food as volume agents it's counter productive... corrugated cardboard will "fill you up " but the hunger will be there later.
you mentioned not knowing what you should eat... your body does know... so eat! there is no doubt in my mind the satiety triggers will come.
Undertow-
ReplyDeleteI look forward to that blog post. It's been great having you to say the least.
Jamie-
I've heard for some it has taken up to 6 months to really get in touch with true appetite and figure out what that really is. Your weight gain will stop soon if it hasn't already, and as you continue to gain weight, if you do, the ratio of muscle to fat gain increases until you stop gaining altogether. That is the typical response.
It will definitely take some time to overcome a long-term eating disorder. That is a lot of past distrust and fear of your own appetite urges to overcome in such a short period of time.
Chief-
Thanks for all of your responses. It's been nice. It's like having the blog comments section on autopilot. I have more time for cooking good food now, lol.
I think you are right that it should be automatic, or else you are asking for trouble. I embarked upon this year with excitement about trying things like carb cycling, IF, and other tips and tricks that are floating around the fitness world. But they are all hard, impractical, and take a toll - especially on emotions and mental aptitude.
There is simply nothing like becoming congruent with your body and its appetite, energy levels, etc., listening to it as carefully as you can, and obeying to the best of your ability.
MATT,
ReplyDeleteMore time for cooking,? you say ..you owe me a buffetthen, I'll be in CO to collect some time soon.
I agree carb cycling can be a bit if a bother and requires alot of planning and potentially makes you an oddball in social settings.
fasting on the other hand can be drifted till the majority of your calories are at a certain time.
and if i have lunch meetings, I just have a salad no dressing. Doesn't get in the way of the fast much.
and although it has happened a few times that I have had a breakfast business meeting,(I know weird) due to so many people skipping breakfast you don't seem weird saying "I cant eat this early" and just sip green tea.
doing that at supper makes people really uncomfortable :)
Anytime Chief. I'll lay out the full spread for you. I'm a cooking machine right now. 18 peeps coming over tonight for crab wontons, vietnamese cucumber salad, Massaman curry, and fried bananas.
ReplyDelete"Jenny ,
ReplyDeletenodak. ????? just thought of that,damn thats out there! surprisingly i went through there and minot before"
My hometown! Racism against natives is sadly alive and well in my home state. Shudder. It's a virtually segregated place. My mom who is in her mid sixties actually made friends with a native american for the first time in her life. It's not because she's a racist, but she lives in a very segregated society which just doesn't allow that much inter-mixing of people. You don't get to make friends with people you never meet.
MATT sounds great i eat a full spread daily lol!
ReplyDeletewe should film it n post it up in fast forward Cooking machine vs eating machine.
for those that have trouble eating
g a lot i find it easier to eat a buffet style as aposed to competitive boiled potato eating...
Jenny
I know what you mean jenny. Its like that in a lot of places. I've sat down to eat in a dinner and have been asked by the local police to kindly leave town.
Jenny,
ReplyDeleteI forgot to say .. i think there are alot of good people that get overlooked like your mom in places like that. just weird cult like groups make it hard for some to "be themselves" in small towns.
I am coming from a really messed up way, to eating a lot. I was vegetarian over exerciser that completely crashed 6 months after giving birth to my second daughter. I have tried various diets to pull myself out of this, including AV's raw stuff. That actually helped a lot, but I don't want to get stuck there. I don't digest well though, am thin, and having trouble sleeping and calming down.
ReplyDeleteI am coming from high fat high protien to this over eating of carbs and what not, and am having a terrible time! I have some insulin resistance and high and low cortisol. I am SOOOOO HUNGRY it's like I can't get enough to eat! My stools this morning were back to loose and green, which is what happened when I crashed and wound up having to get nutrition iv's twice weekly at the hospital. I am not sure if I need to push through this and things will change? Or go back to mil and honey and butter. I don't want to get stuck that way though and stay intolerant to everything. Any ideas?
Erika ,
ReplyDeleteif you are hungry listen to your body. that is always the thing to do.
what re you eating right now as opposed to "going back" as you said ?
give me a little more info and ill ponder a bit n see if i cant help.
Hi Chief
ReplyDeleteI am currently doing aajonus style eating for weight gain. I did do a prarf type thing a while back, but kept losing weight. At one point I was in the hospital for three months and getting nutrition iv's twice weekly.
So right now, I do a little raw meat here and there. Lot's of fresh veggie juice, raw eggs, raw clabbored milk, raw cream, raw butter, lot's of raw honey.
With that, I was able to stabalize somewhat after a few says, and stopped losing weight, and was able to get some sleep. I tried going prarf with whole foods, since I have learned the difference, and did about 7 potatoes a day for a few days. This brought back insomnia, anxiety like crazy, headaches, pain in the gut, mucus and some blood, not to mention it wasn't very digested. Before then I was able to tolerate a potatoe here and there. During PRARF I felt like I was STARVING and couldn't eat enough. I started losing weight again rapidly.
So by going back I meant to the aajonus style diet. I am a little nervous as so many people bash it, but I know so many people who are able to live normal lives because of this. They can even eat normal food now!
I don't know. I didn't understand why I can ea thoney till I am blue in the face and not have the reactive hypoglycemia or anxiety. It was explained to me (by a raw foody, I know) That rw honey doesn't need much effort for the body to use, where a potatoe is dead and hybridized, and my body doesn't have the energy to break it down. It made sense to me by the way I feel.
What do you think? The guy who is walking me through this said prob best not to eat anything cooked right now, and stay away from fiber if I have the mucus and blood. So I am juicing. I also get the mucus and blood from bone broths as well.
Ok, I know this is long, but thanks for reading! You and Matt are awesome! I wish I had found you guys before I tried to go vegan to solve my health issues. It would have been easy to turn around I think at that point. Not so easy now.
I am 5'9" right now. I had gotten down to 100 pounds. Through the iv's and about 5000 cal a day hospital junk food I got up to about 125, but literally did not sleep for months. Drugs could not even put me out. That's how bad my hormones were/are! Doing the raw and milk, I had gotten close to 135, but dropped back down to 130 when I tried to eat the taters. That was three days. Before the taters I was able to get 5-7 hours of sleep a night as well.
Thoughts? Should I just try to gain more strength and energy before doing cooked stuff like that?
The honey is probably better tolerated simply by virtue of the fact that it requires little digestion. Glucose is ready for action and honey has lots of it.
ReplyDeleteStarch, however, needs at least some bacterial action in the gut to be handled properly. Of course, there are always 2 ways to look at things. Starches will provide good food for the type of bacteria you desperately need in there, but give you symptoms at the same time.
Your situation is severe enough that any triggering of inflammatory symptoms at all is the greater evil. Milk, honey, meat, fat, and juice it is. Have you tried bananas? That is a good in between that can still provide some serious remodeling to the digestive tract's bacterial landscape.
I haven't tried banana. I did test allergic to them on an IgE. I used to get breathing probs from them... I have eaten them since without a hitch, but I don't know. I am afraid!
ReplyDeleteI know my bacteria in there is all sorts of messed up. I was actually doing a bit better at digesting food before they decided to give me a colonoscopy. That lavage got rid of anything beneficial I had. Had my levels tested and got a grand total of near zero on all beneficial. After the lavage, that's when I ended up back in the hospital and having to get iv's. Bacteria make the b vitamins. Didn't know that till I no longer was getting them.
I will try banana again in a few days after some of the inflammation goes down. Aajonus reccomends them anyway. He even says eat potatoes and grains cooked! For adrenal and hormone stuff. See you and he are not so different.
Is it possible to rebuild those bacterias? Hopefully?
Yes, bacterial flora can be rebuilt. I believe the key is providing the proper food source to them, which is undigested matter - preferably starches.
ReplyDeleteThat's always the Catch-22. Poorly digested starch makes for a great buffet for good bacteria to colonize, but in the short term can be hell and cause a lot of gas, bloating, and trauma to the intestinal lining.
But bananas are a good in between-er. Mostly sugars for total absorption, but rich in fiber that is not too irritating as well as fructo-oligo-saccharides (FOS) which are supposed to be like Filet Mignon to healthy intestinal bacteria.
well I just ate a banana (doused in honey and cream). It was brown spotty though. Don't the have to be less ripe for fiber?
ReplyDeleteI will try to incorporate banana's here and there to help with the rebuilding of bugs. I am hoping that in a month or two, to add some white basmati and buckwheat.
I don't know if the potatoes cause so much as blood sugar issues, but rather cortisol and adrenaline issues from the inflammation? Cause I eat fruit and dont have the bg swings either...
Hopefully the inflammation will be more controlable as my metabolism and adrenals heal. Then maybe the inflammation won't be as bad and I will do better at rebuilding bugs. I hope? I think I am reaching on ideas here. :)
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ReplyDeleteI dont diss AV outright but ... i still chuckle thinking about some of his ideas they just seem a bit perverse...im laughing just thinking about it..haaaa but hey ..i eat fish and moose jerkies that are raw all they time and prefer em to most garden variety steakhouses cooked versions so who cares what anyone thinks.
ReplyDeletematt gave some pretty good advice i have to say ..
now with the added info you gave i'll ponder for sure a bit more.
the mucus is troubling as it would tend to indicate things are quite flushed out as far as proper
environment. mucus goes wild with excessive diarrhea. I would run the blood issue by an expert I cant see that as normal in any way.
in the meantime i would go with what matt is saying and possible add tiny amounts of say around a teaspoonful of starch sources or even 1 potato chip at a time too and then increase a little at a time if you start to tolerate taking it day by day.
as far as re-growth there is a reason lysol only claims 99.9 percent effective at killing germs ...that .1 percent bacteria can grow like a epidemic. I would think your not totally screwed but I would think it is one difficult road and may need some serious work.
just curious if the gave you anything to rebuild the bacteria at the hospital? never go there so my experience is limited but I have seen people be prescribed probiotics and probiotic yogurt after a antibiotic treatment wiped em out.
what country are you in? just thinking bout how hospitals differ.
Ya, drinking my own urine, or eating poop is not something I am jumping into anytime soon.
ReplyDeleteI am in the U.S. No they did not give me anything to rebuild bacteria after the lavage. I did order some EM's and am doing Kefir, hoping to rebuild. I have a lot of probiotic brands as well, but they haven't done anything for me. As for the banana, I had an allergic reaction to it.
The blood thing is inflammation. The 'experts' have no idea what is going on. On the results, my intestines showed inflammation, but they had no reccomendations but take an antidepressant to help deal with the malabsorption symptoms like depression? I finally found a doc who get's it who said I am basically missing an organ with my ecology the way it is, and that is why I don't digest food.
What are some high carb veggies that would be easily digestible? Not long chain sugars like potatoes. I don't even digest cooked carrots.
I am going to wait for the inflammation to go down, hopefully, before I attempt any starch again. I am going to thoroughly steam or stew some veggies though. I am thinking of sticking to something more scd/gaps ish. It sucks cause the good carbs are all indigestible at thing point. I just got the results from a stool test from the doc. At this point, I am missing the enzymes that break down the complex sugars. This causes massive inflamation, which makes my hormones freak out.
I wish there was a sure wa out of this. This is basically just experimentation and hoping something works. I don't know that I am even tolerating the milk all that well, as I feel pain and bloating with it. But not before the potatoes.
So for now, I was told to do my milk honey cream mixture with butter on the side, raw eggs and raw veggie juices for the next week and see how it goes. I think I am going to add the stewed veggies maybe with a little stewed red meat.
What is more digestible. Stewed meat? Or raw?
I think it depends on the preparation a well stewed meat can be very broken down in a stew.
ReplyDeleteas far as raw you cant beat a good quality pemican.
but finding good stuff is hard.
I konw alot of people in the 180 circle like milk but i am definitely on the fence about it it. maybe try avoiding it for a short time. I know i would be in your situation with a heavy milk diet.
dont go to long though as it may be one of the good guys ..lol go slow
you might try spirulina as a it is used by people supplying the starving populations of the world.
has protein and has a good track record considered it has been eaten as a staple for thousands of years.
it usually comes in a powder form and can be added to smoothies. hi nutrient density and it's pretty easily digested due to it's simple nature and powdered form.
I would definitely use the raw honey as it requires little to digest and your body hates missing out on calories.
Cassandra Dam iris can be used to balance the nervous system that means we need to do the Cassandra dam iris so as to make our health and nervous system good.
ReplyDeleteI've been taking a probiotic that a buddy of mine prescribes. I'm also taking Maca Root to improve energy, intensity, and recovery time. Any experience with Maca Root?
ReplyDelete